Why is the current meta so hateful against Vexing Devil?
Standard forum
Posted on March 8, 2013, 9:42 a.m. by Cobthecobbler
I mean, come on guys. It's either a one-mana-four-damage-to-the-face burn spell, or it's a 4/3 creature. You can manipulate your opponent with Undying Evil to insure that it comes in, and then you can Fling it later when it's about to die. It's got a lot of potential and I know it's almost a staple in RDW and all other red burn decks.
Personally, I love it. I own a playset because it's one of my favourite standard cards.
What are tappedOut's thoughts?
AkumaHokoru says... #3
I have always said Vexing is never what you want when you need it. When you want damage he's a creature. when you want a creature he's a burn spell.
March 8, 2013 9:52 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #4
Well, drop the Vexing devil on turn 1 when you're on the play and there is no answer except pay the 4 life. 2nd turn onward, there's plenty of answers, sure.
I see what you're saying though.
March 8, 2013 9:54 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
The Q&A is meant for rules-related questions. Moved to Standard.
March 8, 2013 10:15 a.m.
Basically, it's 4 damage when you need a creature, and a creature when you want to do direct damage.
When you look at creatures in terms of "trade-offs", it's a card/creature I can get rid of without using any cards from my hand.... or even mana. - If you use Undying Evil to ensure it stays, then you've used 2 cards to get a 4/3 vanilla... it's okay but not great.
Again, it has it's uses.... I tried it in a RUG Evolve deck, as a 1 CMC Evolve trigger that could also be a 4/3 or 4 damage... it was okay, but not great... as it is in most decks.
March 8, 2013 11:33 a.m.
Personally I think he is a great card I've used him in aggro not burn decks though.
March 8, 2013 11:34 a.m.
I agree that it is very good and underplayed, the arguments I see against are valid but if you're using red aggro then how can you keep this guy out?! While the opposition gets to decide how its played its still a possible turn 1 4/3 or direct 4 to their face :)
March 8, 2013 11:59 a.m.
I'm not using him in my Modern Burn deck, even though some do. He's unreliable.
March 8, 2013 12:01 p.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #10
You guys all make fair points, but I've never had any trouble with him.
Even if you do use 2 cards to get out a 4/3 vanilla, dude, you paid 2 mana for that 4/3 to come out on turn two. I think a lot of this hate has to do with him not seeing tournament play, which is what dictates power cards in standard.
I see why people don't use him but I feel like no ones giving him a chance. You're all overthinking it. Vexing devil isn't meant to be played alone at all (except turn 1 on the play for that headstart). He's meant to be combo'd with.
I used to use him in my burn deck. He worked pretty well as a solo act when I had 2 or three in my opening hand (rare occasions), but I found myself cleaning up my late game with him. Now he's in my aggro deck and I love him there.
Obviously I can't change your opinions, so keep going. I want to hear more.
March 8, 2013 12:09 p.m.
I never disagreed with you. He's in my Evolving Aggro - Burn Version deck, along with another under-rated 1 drop red card - Slumbering Dragon. They both work fairly well in this deck... unfortunately, there are other issues with the deck that I still have to work out.
I've since went White instead of Red for combo'ing with Evolve... Evolving Aggro - Smooth Version... but I think the original can still be re-worked.
March 8, 2013 12:22 p.m.
It gives the opponent too much choice over what happens in the game. It's somewhat OK in a burn deck when doing direct damage is a great and having a fair blocker is acceptable anyway but really it's just way too easy to manipulate.
March 8, 2013 1:20 p.m.
@ Goody
No, with Undying Evil, it will only get the +1/+1 if the opponent pays 4 life. The use of the stack means that once you give the opponent the chance to pay the life, you will not get the opportunity to respond before you must sacrifice.
Since you have to play Undying Evil before the opponent chooses whether or not to pay the 4 life (otherwise you have to sacrifice the Vexing Devil before you gat a chance to cast Undying Evil), the opponent will tend not to pay the 4.
Undying Evil can really only be used as a deterrent. If they pay 4 life, then it will come back with +1/+1... at that point, they can choose to pay another 4 to force the sac again. 8 life is not usually an acceptable loss for a 4/3 creature.
March 8, 2013 1:41 p.m.
Replaced it with Rakdos Cackler and Stromkirk Noble and never looked back. While a 4 damage burn for 1 mana is a great value in theory, the problem becomes you'd much rather have the creature Turn 1, because a Rakdos Cackler is either going to get in for more than 4 damage throughout the course of the game or trade with one of their cards. You only want to be burning your opponent for their last few points. The problem with Vexing Devil is that it's always the card your opponent wants it to be when you cast it, and never the card you want it to be.
And I don't think using 2 cards to get a single vanilla 4/3 is ever a good value, even if it only costs 2 mana. Even if it was free it probably still wouldn't be worth running, it's still using up 2 resources to do that.
tempest says... #2
Probably because there are so many answers to it. It will die from Searing Spear Dreadbore Ultimate Price... and life gain/drain decks just take it and gain he life heck later
March 8, 2013 9:51 a.m.