Why Isn't Grixis making top 64
Standard forum
Posted on April 2, 2014, 3:45 a.m. by STABtrain
Grixis, (mostly control/ midrange) Is the only 3 color shard from alara that hasn't been making it near the top 64 in gps or tournaments, Why? What is Grixis missing or what does it need to compete with Bant, esper, naya, and jund?
Grixis is awesome and flavorful. I love playing it. That being said, LeaPlath hit the nail on the head. Not having Supreme Verdict and Sphinx's Revelation makes the decks incredibly shaky.
April 2, 2014 5:28 a.m.
Return to Ravnica wasted the Dimir colors for crap and made Rakdos more aggressive. Only Izzet got supplied with treasures like Counterflux , Cyclonic Rift and Mizzium Mortars .
There are decent Grixis shells, using;
Anger of the Gods , Mizzium Mortars = Sweeper
Steam Augury , Opportunity , Jace, Architect of Thought , Duskmantle Seer = Card advantage
Rakdos's Return , Thoughtseize , Slaughter Games = Disruption
Add in red Burn, black Removal and blue counterspells to dominate the field. Finish it up with an Aetherling an you're good to go.
The problem is, Azorius, Esper, America and Bant have THE card advantage machine in standard with Sphinx's Revelation . Pair up this insane draw Spell with Supreme Verdict , a cheap wrath that hit's even toughness 5 targets and Detention Sphere , which get's rid of anything but lands.
And last but not least, Grixis walkers aren't that great. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Ral Zarek are fine cards (Ashiok is great in esper sideboards), but can't compete with Elspeth. Elspeth, Sun's Champion is a difficult to hit threat, that can be both, sweeper or finisher. Hell, often she'll do both in the same game.
So, long story short, Grixis lacks Damnation , Compulsive Research and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker .
April 2, 2014 8:31 a.m.
It can't cast Sphinx's Rev. Almost as simple as that. Lifegain is important for a control deck.
April 2, 2014 10:31 a.m.
It not that the elements to make a control deck don't exist in the colors, the real issue is it lacks pay off. Grixis doesn't get you access to anything that UWx can't do better. Your sweepers are worse, card advantage is worse, good win-conditions are more limited, etc.
April 2, 2014 10:59 a.m.
So If we got a card as good as Damnation in journey into nyx do you think Grixis would become a viable deck type again or would it just make esper and jund even more powerful while doing nothing for grixis?
April 2, 2014 5:49 p.m.
It would make all three shards better. I'd probably play Grixis if Damnation got a reprint, especially post rotation. Maybe just dimir or rakdos control.
April 2, 2014 5:59 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #9
Because white is stronger than red right now.White opens up Supreme Verdict
, Detention Sphere
, Sphinx's Revelation
, Azorius Charm
, Blood Baron of Vizkopa
, etc. White has more and better removal.
Anger of the Gods
just doesnt stack up.
April 3, 2014 11:07 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #10
STABtrain- This is an interesting question. Bringing in a black wrath opens up more removal to Grixis, but it does the same for Esper, and U/B. It essentially replaces Supreme Verdict as it in less color-intensive. The only issue is it can be countered. The issue is Esper also has access to it. For Grixis to really be viable, it needs to get some solid red removal. Red is just lacking at the moment.
April 3, 2014 11:10 p.m.
Jund wouldn't care about Damnation, because it makes no sense to play it midrange decks.
April 4, 2014 2:18 p.m.
So we just got the very first batch of spoilers from Journey into nyx, and one of the cards that was spoiled was a black board wipe called extinguish all hope its cmc is 4 colorless and 2B and it destroys all non enchantment creatures. Now I realize that its not a perfect board wipe but I think this is the best thing that grixis is going to get any time soon. so in case anyone's curious here's a link to all the spoilers so far http://mythicspoiler.com/
April 7, 2014 1:04 a.m.
LordOfDispair says... #14
I don't watch pro scenes ever, all I know is I have a hell of a lot of fun playing my grixis deck and I usually do decently enough. Yeah Azorius gets all the good stuff but so boring... grixis control is so flavorful, I love it.
April 10, 2014 9:28 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #15
Grixis doesn't have the manabase that Esper and Bant have had access to. Temple of Deceit was the only scry land that we had access to prior to BNG, Blue is a primary color and having a scry land that's B/R (Temple of Malice ) doesn't help when you run counterspells.
Now, if you go with using a decent amount of removal in Hero's Downfall and Dreadbore and change your counterspells so you're not relying on UU (i.e., use Psychic Strike or Essence Scatter instead of Dissolve ) you could be setting yourself up for success.
Esper is mainly U/W with a splash of B for Hero's Downfall and Thoughtseize . Grixis wants to use 3 colors ALL the time which makes it hard to create a balanced manabase.
I've been working on mine for awhile now, and I can't WAIT for Keranos, god of storms and the U/R scry land to hit standard. Will make it MUCH easier.
Here's a list for comparison:
The one control deck to rule them all Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 41 | 18 COMMENTS | 6482 VIEWS
MollyMab says... #2
Grixis is just kinda lacking.
Compared to other control/midrange deck, they are lacking the most.
Any of the W/U/X deck have better counters, boardwipes and late game with cards like Sphinx's Rev and Elspeth.
Decks with green in have access to ramp and powerful creatures like Polly Polkuranos.
April 2, 2014 5:16 a.m.