Will Jeskai abuse this?
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 15, 2015, 4:13 a.m. by Death_The_Kid
Soulfire Grand Master Stoke the Flames Jeskai Ascendancy. Pretty sure if you have 4 creatures out this can be infinite right? I feel like this can be a thing but idk
Death_The_Kid says... #3
is the ability of the grand master until end of turn? because if ti is then itd be infinite. Cast stoke by tapping creatures, untap your creatures. Grand Master Triggers and returns stoke back to hand then you can retap the creatures. so on
January 15, 2015 4:33 a.m.
CookieJedi says... #4
The ability is not until end of turn specifically because this combo would exist. It's worded "the next time" meaning only once. You'd have to keep paying 4 mana into it for it to keep working.
January 15, 2015 4:37 a.m.
Death_The_Kid says... #5
ah okay thanks for clarification. still this does seem like a strong combo right?
January 15, 2015 4:38 a.m.
Yes, this is very powerful and Soulfire Grand Master will see play in standard and maybe even older formats (I am thinking at least a sideboard card in burn)
January 15, 2015 5:04 a.m.
ChiefBell, what would you side him in against in modern, and for which archetype? I am really only well versed with what I play in modern and what its strong matches are (BW Tokens), so I can't wrap my own head around where he goes in modern. My initial thoughts run straight to burn, though?
Death_The_Kid, way to start the thought process and pick it apart! I wish it worked like that, but you need to have the mana paid to "buy back" your spell before Jeskai Ascendancy triggers. :-/ I know, it's not the result you wanted. Would you settle for being half right, though? Jeskai will abuse the hell out of this card in every possible way!
January 15, 2015 7:42 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #9
capriom85 Burn decks can take her in to screw with other burn decks.
January 15, 2015 7:46 a.m.
Burn versus burn. Burn versus other fast aggro decks.
January 15, 2015 7:49 a.m.
ok, thank JexInfinite and ChiefBell, glad to see my mind isn't completely numb this early. I knew burn would be involved. I wonder, if 2 skilled burn players went against eachother, and both hit the Grandmaster around the same time, who would end up winning that life gain/loss battle?
Side question...lets say a Blasphemous Act hits the table with this guy on the board and there are 5 creatures out total. I am assuming it does work out that you gain 13x5=65 life since 5 creatures take 13 damage from a source with lifelink, yes? That said...I think this guy will be nutters in EDH as well with the possibility of infinite damage=infinite life combos in anything that runs white/red.
January 15, 2015 7:54 a.m.
GeeksterPlays says... #12
Meh, I don't see the hype so much. Sure she nets you some life back if you play a burn spell, but you need a minimum turn 6 (assuming no crappy mana rocks like banners) before you can use her to bounce a worthwhile spell back.
You Stoke the Flames me for 4 and get it back in your hand and gain 4 life? Meh, 2 turns before that point I can have a Colossus of Akros monstrous activated, equipped with Burning Anger and a Whip of Erebos on the field, enjoy your 2/2 Monk while I do a 20-point suckerpunch to the face and gain 20 life from it.
January 15, 2015 8:07 a.m.
So you can send stoke the flames back to hand for 8 mana total. 4 for the ability and 4 for stoke the flames. Stoke has convoke so you can actually do it for 7 mana. Assuming you also have one or two other creatures it's possible to send stoke back to hand somewhere around T6.
Regarding the above comment: Firstly I don't understand how you can have a monstrous colossus T4 with whip and anger (You said 2 turns before turn 6). I don't think theres any way to generate 24RBB by turn 4.
Secondly most of that sequence you described will be made significantly more difficult when playing against a control player who's actively disrupting what you do, and also happens to have infinite 2 mana counterspells from turn 6 onwards. You absolutely cannot downplay how significant this card is. Giving a control player infinite counterspells is mad.
January 15, 2015 8:33 a.m.
Me likey infinite 2 mana counterspells.
I'm thinking I'd rather have infinite Cryptic Commands tho. I think I'll be testing this in a bant control deck with some dorks to ramp into 8 mana fast xD
January 15, 2015 10:29 a.m.
It's worth testing. May end up being too slow. Note that grand master doesnt require tapping to activate the ability so you can play him AND activate his ability in the same turn. Could be tricky to do but obviously makes him resistant to removal because he doesn't have to sit around.
I'm in two minds about him. 4 mana in modern is huge. However having infinite counterspells in huge. If a control deck can make it to turn 8 then it would appear they're pretty much sorted, but then again that's a very, very long time given that modern games are usually over by T5 or T6 at the moment. He has potential, but is completely untested.
January 15, 2015 10:32 a.m.
Personally I think infinite any spell is a bit crazy.
I'd be almost as scared of infinite Lightning Bolt as infinite counterspells.
Not quite, but almost.
January 15, 2015 10:35 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #17
January 15, 2015 10:44 a.m.
what about Training Grounds with the monk? that seems kinda broken
January 15, 2015 11:56 a.m.
turn 1 Training Grounds turn 2 mana dork, turn 3 and 4 hold the board, turn 5 drop the monk and hold a Mana Leak
January 15, 2015 11:58 a.m.
Jumping through hoops to make a creature with two toughness better is rarely worth it.
January 15, 2015 11:58 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #22
Stoke the Flames could be played and bought back 4 just 4 mana. lets look at jeskai tokens. turn 2 Soulfire Grand Master. turn 3 Hordeling Outburst. turn 4 buyback ability. use the convoke to pay for the spell. if you wait till turn 5 you could have a Jeskai Ascendency out and that 1 stoke can be cast twice in the same turn for the low low price of giving your creatures +2/+2 and paying 4 mana
January 15, 2015 12:19 p.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #23
Actually @JexInfinite i think infinite Punish Ignorance may be worse.
January 15, 2015 12:41 p.m.
while i agree with you ChiefBell, i still think it would be fun to try
January 15, 2015 12:54 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #25
CommanderOfBolas I see an interesting deck idea, but something that will needed to be tested to death to see if it's viable.
January 15, 2015 2:46 p.m.
There are a few 3 card combos with Training Grounds that can be made, the problem is that most creatures that combo with it have toughness of 3 or less.
Wodar says... #2
I am not sure how this is going infinite seeing as you need 4 extra mana each cast of Stoke the flames to buy it back.
January 15, 2015 4:27 a.m.