Will mill be a viable stategy come rotation ?
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 11, 2013, 2:26 p.m. by Killabeetle
Just wondering what you guys think about mill post rotation. Will it get better or will it be slowed down to the point where it is not worth building around ? personally I think it will only get better especially in the first few weeks while people are muddling with new strategies. What are your thoughts ?
Cobthecobbler says... #2
The thing is, you have no idea whether or not they run basics, and if Ghost Quarter was really a problem for those decks that ran these lands that needed to be dealt with, they'd run some basics. People always adapt their decks to deal with what's being thrown at them. I never said you're a noob, or crazy, I just don't think Ghost Quarter is worth the advantage you give your opponent.
The only thing I've ever seen it run sideboarded for was Cavern of Souls , but no one really used it that I've faced.
September 12, 2013 3:12 p.m.
zandl I do think that my deck is badass, there is nothing wrong with that. You should too, don't know how you win tournaments if you don't.
About Platinum Angel , ok lets just all stop using 7 mana cards, after all no one survives to play them. Cannot say you are right, this card saved me a lot of times and in turn 7 usually the opponent already used all his counter and killers.
Thoughtseize is not better than Duress if you don't need to get creatures out of someones hand. It gives you choices, and having choices is great, thats why i replace the Duress with it if I play against a heavy creature deck.
Oh, and don't be so defensive
September 12, 2013 4:59 p.m.
The Doctor says... #4
elganame, are you shitting me right now? How in the fuck can you honestly think that Duress is better then Thoughtseize ? Duress is extremely limited to what it can do, while Thoughtseize can literally get anything for a measly 2 life.
September 12, 2013 5:24 p.m.
Not sure how you win Modern tournaments. Clearly, nobody plays REAL Modern where you play.
Have fun playing your happy-go-lucky "Let's-play-with-our-fun-casual-cards" tournaments.
If you think Platinum Angel is the strongest part of a mill deck, you have clearly never played a game beyond your kitchen table.
September 12, 2013 5:27 p.m.
zandl i never said Platinum Angel is the strongest part of a mill deck, you clearly read what you want. And yes, i will play my non real Modern deck thats a happ-go-lucky if thats whats entertains me along with Vintage. For me, thats where the real competition is. Standard is elitist, aristocratic and full of people...well...like you. Playing all the same decks, lack of creativity that cannot see beyond mainstream cards. Believe me, clandestine vintage and modern tournaments are much more profitable than official tournaments where i live.
The Doctor, dont be bitchy, i also never said that thoughseize is better than duress, in fact, thoughtseize is better but having the context in mind, duress will prevail in cases that you need to use life as a resource and cannot count on more cards of the kind. By the way, dont mess with Duress , that card is legend and is arround for quite some time. If you find it limited its because it has a specific function, if it does everything you need, thoughseize is a luxury you may regret.
Im trying to be logic here, i see a lot of mill hate arround saying it wont work. Thats fine with me, you wont change my mind, i just express my opinion and thats it.Also, i have been insulted because of my manners but i get the same elitist responses back. I guess i like to play clandestine, vintage, modern and casual because of all the spoiled little brats arround here.
September 12, 2013 8:40 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #7
"Hey, so, remember that time where people got worked up over a game and argued about it over the interwebs. Pepperidge Farm remembers." - Fluffybunnypants 2013
September 12, 2013 10:38 p.m.
detentionsphere says... #8
Dedicated mill is NEVER good. /thread.
But if you mean control with mill as a wincon, well, Drownyard was great because it was very hard to deal with. At this point, Jace, Memory Adept is the only good mill wincon we have (Ashiok is unspeakably bad), but AEtherling is mostly better. If I ran UB control post-Theros, I might do a 2 AEtherling /1 Jace split for wincons.
But yeah, mill sucks even more than Burn does, because people actually interact with their graveyards.
September 13, 2013 6:02 a.m.
DId someone really just pull the "lack-of-creativity" card on me?
Must've been the wind. If anyone had spent more than a week here, they'd bother looking at that person's decklists before making such an overused, nearly-cliche, baseless accusation.
September 13, 2013 10:44 a.m.
Detentionsphere, there's an amusing contradiction here. You complain a) that mill lets people interact with their graveyard and b) that ashiok, a planeswalker that mills without putting any cards in the graveyard is "unspeakably bad". What are you smoking?
I'd rather have an Ashiok on turn 3 than a jace on any later turn. Ashiok makes itself harder to kill every time it mills. To put jace at five loyalty I have to do something I can do twice better for 3 mana with Pilfered Plans , and while Jace's mill 10 does nothing whatsoever to help with his other abilities (in fact, it makes him more vulnerable since every time I mill, I'll risk more loyalty loss from battle or burn damage), Ashiok's give me options to steal my opponent's creatures. I'll happily -2 or -3 for a number of things.
September 14, 2013 7:35 p.m.
detentionsphere says... #11
OK, maybe I wasn't clear enough in explaining myself. Let's have a go.
Mill is not necessarily bad because people interact with their graveyards (which is part of the reason). Both mill and burn are bad because they encourage enormous card disadvantage while doing nothing to impact the game. The only time burn is good is when there is a critical mass of efficient, cheap burn (even in Modern, where there is, burn isn't even very good). Mill is EVEN WORSE because people DO interact with their graveyards.
Now let's go over the reasons Ashiok is bad.
a) He does not protect himself. Look at every successful planeswalker ever - Elspeth, JTMS, all the Garruks, Karn, Tezzeret, LOTV, Domri, Ajani V, etc., all have an ability that protects themselves. The only good planeswalkers who do not protect themselves are Jace Beleren , who offers cheap, massive card advantage, and Jace, Memory Adept . While J, MA is expensive and does not protect himself, he can provide huge card advantage by drawing a card every turn, or he can just kill them in four turns.
b) he does not impact the board. This ties into the first point. Not only does he not impact the board, he does not draw you cards or make them discard. His first ability provides NO ADVANTAGE WHATSOEVER, and you do not want to be tapping out to do that.
c) his second ability hinges completely on facing a deck with a deck with a lot of creatures, using the plus ability multiple times to have a good chance of hitting a guy, AND have both you and the Ashiok survive to use the -X. Oh, and it's completely random. It's useless against control, and you can even randomly lose the game by milling 6 noncreatures against an aggro deck.
So to recap, he does not impact the board, his 1st ability is terrible, and his 2nd ability is very situational.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Ashiok is a bad card.
September 15, 2013 2:46 a.m.
CaptainCaveman says... #12
With Thought Scour , Dream Twist and Mind Sculpt rotating out and not much rotating in from Theros i do not think that the RTR block mill cards alone make mill a viable option.
Killabeetle says... #1
Now we have Encroaching Wastes and yea I run them in my MBC deck and they work great there. If you cant disrupt there land then your not using you control deck to its fullest potential.
September 12, 2013 3:10 p.m.