Any article-writers up for clarifying a few things to newer players?
TappedOut forum
Posted on Sept. 2, 2013, 11:36 a.m. by gheridarigaaz
I was thinking along the lines of seeing articles that went over skill-intensive cards.
Just now, i've looked up Vendilion Clique , a card I admire, but am not entirely sure how to use, nor the nuances of using such a card to find that there are no articles I've seen on my quick search that talk about the card.
I guess you could go over how cards like Brainstorm , Cabal Therapy and Gifts Ungiven are good cards. But a player like me who hasn't played in the time of those cards barely has a clue as to how these cards were used to gain an advantage over opponents... well i have a rough idea but not so much of one that i know how to maximize the gain from using them, whether timing is a factor, reading body language or whether it was just the time of printing that deemed them as skill-intensive...
Point being, is anyone up for explaining these to the scores of newer players who aren't aware of the subtleties of these cards?
Interestingly, I've noticed good players who don't know how to use fetches properly. When to play them, crack them, what to get, etc are commonly misunderstood.
September 2, 2013 12:48 p.m.
Hmm, explain that in more detail Jp3ngu1nb0y, kinda hard to not use them properly, so wondering if I'm missing something?
September 2, 2013 12:52 p.m.
For example, waiting until EoT to use them, using them when you still need to draw land, or using more than necessary in a deck. In control, a turn one fetch makes it harder to hit 5, 6, 7 lands.
September 2, 2013 1:12 p.m.
Interesting. Though I haven't owned enough to run more than two or three in a deck. I think though for me it tends to fall back into what kind of hand I kept. I use them more for mana fixing than anything. When I have fetches I run a meager 1-2 of the shock lands as opposed to the four I would run without and load up on basics. Though I don't have a lot of modern and legacy experience yet.
September 2, 2013 1:18 p.m.
It would be interesting to see an article series on the finer nuances of certain cards and what makes them powerful. Somethings like Tarmogoyf are easy to understand, while other things like Dark Confidant might confuser a newer player as to why it is actually good. It could cover every format, color, and playstyle. I actually like that idea. If I wasn't so busy I would really consider trying my hand at writing something like that.
September 2, 2013 2:27 p.m.
I might be interested in writing these... Do you think they'd get a good supply of readers?
September 2, 2013 2:41 p.m.
You would be surprised I think. There are lots of small things that people don't understand until it is explained to them. I think you would have to divide it up somehow but you would be able to talk about a lot of the power cards and deck styles that are a bit more advanced. I understand a lot of them but even I would still read all of them because I want to see another take on it from what I know.
September 2, 2013 2:52 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #10
Many Legacy Draw-Go/Control decks utilize the end of opponent's turn to basically take their turn with Instants, Flash, and such. That's often when fetches are cracked to find a Shock that ETB tapped and one doesn't lose 2 life (although they use duals like Tropical Island and what not anyway...). Brainstorm shines there.
Experienced RDW players utilize Instants to their full advantage, waiting for the opportune time to play a Price of Progress
, Lightning Bolt
, activate Grim Lavamancer
, or Fireblast
for the win.
There are many complex interactions and card choices within any given format and archetype, most notably Modern and Legacy due to the larger card pool.
I took a hiatus from MtG from 2000-2009 and am still unfamiliar with cards printed from that span. I'm also still learning of various deck archetypes within Legacy, due to the plethora of card choices. In conclusion, a series of articles highlighting specific cards, concrete examples within a deck context, and deck archetypes would be a great addition.
September 2, 2013 3:06 p.m.
gheridarigaaz says... #11
You'd think that ideally players would be casting spells at the end of their opponents turns if they could, however recently i'd heard it's different against certain decks, e.g. casting Yeva, Nature's Herald at the end of an opponents turn or before blockers are declared would usually be the case, however, against a more reactive opponent, you could cast her in their upkeep, forcing them to react before they draw, denying them a resource as well as needing to respond in their turn, leaving you an opening to let you cast spells.
Its things like this that i've been unaware of until recently, which makes me question how well i know the game.
Surprisingly i'd heard that most players cast Brainstorm in their turns to ensure they hit their land-drops... counter intuitive to what i have been aware of, but it has a lot to do with how working with fetch-lands affects each brainstorm you cast... then again that could be youtube trolling with me again...
September 2, 2013 4:04 p.m.
Vendillion Clique is a 3/1 flyer for 3 mana with flash. That on its own is decent, if not massively tournament playable. Add on his ability and you have potential for some crazy shenanigans.
Use number 1. Disruption. You can disrupt a combo or a control deck by sticking a useful or value piece to the bottom of their deck. You can also do all kind of tricks with it, such as in response to an AEther Vial ability going onto the stack you can use Clique to put the card they would put onto the battlefield onto the the bottom of deck.
Use 2. You can use it to replace a dead card like a land with a new card from top of deck.
Brainstorm is a cantrip and then some. Because it is any 2 cards in your hand, not just two out of the three you drew. Combined with fetchlands, you can shuffle away bad draws and sculpt a perfect hand. Especially important for combo.
Gifts Ungiven will at least give you 2 cards for 4 mana at instant speed, which is good. It can also lead to some horrible choices and tricks. For example, you can only chose a big fatty like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Unburial Rites and your opponent with have to pick them. Alternatively you pick the 2 cards you want and 2 ways to recur them, such as Eternal Witness or Snapcaster Mage .
Cabal Therapy is a card that requires you to know your decks weaknesses and the other decks strengths. For example, a combo deck might want to go turn 1 Dark Ritual and off that 3 mana, cast Cabal Therapy naming Force of Will . This will allow them to go off, unmolested and win. Alternativly decks like NicFit use it with cards like Veteran Explorer to stripe stifles out of the hand first, then another card with the flashback and gain value.
September 2, 2013 4:40 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #14
@Jp3ngu1nb0y - Write it up, post on my wall when you're done.
September 2, 2013 5:28 p.m.
Cool. How do you guys think I should split it up? Format, color, spell type?
September 2, 2013 5:30 p.m.
I'm thinking format. Just the easiest. But you could also explain how some cards cross the format lines.
September 2, 2013 6:01 p.m.
gheridarigaaz says... #17
@LeaPlath et.al. I'm not asking why they're good cards... we can see that much, i'm seeing if discussing why they're good in a series of articles would be something worth doing and if anyone's up for it... i think it's a great way for newer players to learn, not-to-mention certain instances that even more experienced players may have not been aware of the card's applications.
Amongst them would be things like:
why the card is tons better than a lot of other cards in the same strain.
which option best suits the situation for a modal spell
are there any cues for timing with them? sometimes it might be better to respond to triggers, or slip them in between phases
-what's the best way to play around the card?
-any overlooked synergies the card may have
The list goes on, and the detail could be a lot more than the snippets anyone could give in a forum post. This isnt just about the cards i'd mentioned, as MR H3AT said its easy to see why Tarmogoyf is so valued, but a bit less obvious with something like Dark Confidant .
September 2, 2013 6:16 p.m.
I have a thread going to get some starting ideas flowing if you guys can contribute with what you want! It's here:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-forum/general/cards-you-dont-understand/
DaggerV says... #2
There's a lot to say about Vendilion Clique . It can be cast at instant speed and has three power with evasion, for three is pretty good on it's own. I don't mind the one toughness so much because just about anything dies to removal anyways. Where it shines however, is the fact you can hold it in your hand, and play it as your opponent ends their turn to cause major hand disruption. Stick that pesky board-wipe or Tarmogoyf down on the bottom. Now you're beating away for three life easy.
Gift Ungiven has several different tournament uses too. A big one being flash-back and re-anmation/re-cycler. At instant speed it'll quickly grab what you need to push the opponent over the edge. In the case of reanimation, grab Unburial Rites and some beefy creatures. Dumb whichever is the less favorable and reanimate that big creature through either hard cast or flashback. This is just one example, Gift is one of snapcaster's favorite friend.
Brainstorm is good in that at 1 mana, and at instant speed, you can dig three deep into your library to fix your hand. Stick lands or miracle cards back to draw next two turn.
Cabal Therapy requires extensive knowledge, but goes a long ways in legacy to really disrupt opponent's combo. Though I've yet to see it outside of sideboard.
I'm sure someone else will add on to this or go more in dept, but that's my quick 2c.
September 2, 2013 11:52 a.m.