Can we get a new way to show combos? 95% of them aren't actually combos
TappedOut forum
Posted on July 6, 2015, 2:40 p.m. by KillTheIslandUser
I think this is a legit issue that needs to tweaked or redone. While the feature is cool, and deserves to be there... people don't use it correctly at all. They will just unknowingly do Card+Card when suggesting things, but out of laziness do both in 1 bracket not 2 like I did. So can we get an actual combo command?
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Pestermite actually is a combo. Where as Crucible of Worlds, Lotus Cobra, and any fetch land is just synergy. So can we get an actual code for combos, that way less not-actual combos aren't just spammed on a card page?
Maybe even one for synergy, and get rid of the + thing entirely. I know we can't exactly educate people on the difference of combo and synergy, so there is still going to be screw ups there, but it would lessen it.
The reason I say this is because I just happen to look at some of them, mostly while looking for ideas for my karametra deck... but what I see... Karametra, God of Harvests + Mirari's Wake....... how is that a combo? How is that even synergy? Karametra is a ramp tool, as is mirari's, but they don't interact with each other on their own.
Femme_Fatale says... #2
When you had said that you would have people require to put down combo: as an identifier, that would limit people from using the syntax accidentally or for other purposes. It may also stop people from putting in pointless synergies.
July 8, 2015 11:47 p.m.
KillTheIslandUser says... #3
Yeah... I'm trying to go through all these... lol I've legit done what I can in my time frame per day..... but ... 20k combinations gg. It's all synergy stuff too.. like E. Witness, and a random card it gets, plus what ever way they can bounce it. There's so many cards like that. Or playing reanimator... so many of the same reanimator combo and synergy.... just 1 card different.... like.. wtf.
That's where you would be wrong, and people like you wanted tags like infinite combos... when combos are already what they are... game winning effects. Synergy advances board state, but combos win the game, or create a lock that only the player who created the lock can do anything any more.
July 9, 2015 4:42 p.m.
KillTheIslandUser says... #4
I think what femme is saying... we all know that a sac outlet + saffi + revillark + karmic guide... is going to infinitely grab something, out of the graveyard... Or Saffi + Sun Titan + Sac outlet + something that does something when creatures enter the battlefield effect perm on the table. IE: Aura Shards, Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, Altar of Dementia, etc etc.
We all know that a sac outlet + melira and a persist creature is gonna keep coming back. E witness shenanigans with take turn cards and a bounce mechanic etc etc. They are all literally nearly the same thing... albeit 1 different card. The main combo stays the same, or rather the core of the combo/lock stays the same.
So going through every single one of those now is gonna take forever. Wiping the combase, and putting in the markdown syntax and actually making sure it they are purposely putting it in as combo, not just + card will be a lot easier to get at. Maybe even make one for synergy. Granted again people are gonna do what ever, but this will drastically make it easier on me, and maybe others will join me in this. I know epoch said he would help out once that happens.
July 9, 2015 4:56 p.m.
okay well i will nuke everything that doesn't have a rating. there's still obvious stuff like, cough, Channel + Fireball that haven't even been approved. i will need to make a code-change before they stop being created.
July 9, 2015 5:27 p.m.
KillTheIslandUser says... #6
When I see it I'll approve it lol, till then I'm still seeing things like this
Elspeth, Sun's Champion + Secure the Wastes + Sorin, Solemn Visitor >.>
Yes yes I get you can make a bunch of tokens, and make them +1/0 and get lifelink with sorin, and -3 Elspeth to remove all those big stompy 4 plus power creatures... I get it.... when I get through all of those good only now in standard rotation synergies....Today I finally found trisk + Michaeus was so happy
July 9, 2015 5:54 p.m.
KillTheIslandUser says... #7
Or this one
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Windswept Heath
... yes every land ever... plus yawgmoth you can tap for black.. so let's get every land in there with yawgmoth.... and they do..
it's crap like that, that makes me want to go... why are you putting that as a combo? I don't get it... the card is a static effect... it's not comboing with anything... if you did something like Cabal Coffers ok .. true.. good synergy so much black mana. It's never that though... it's always yawgmoth and a fetch, or yawgmoth and mountain, etc.
July 9, 2015 5:59 p.m. Edited.
Named_Tawyny says... #8
KillTheIslandUser, no, I'm not wrong. You're welcome to disagree, but the simple fact that people talk - in different uses - of combos, infinite combos, and synergies, suggests that they're different things.
July 10, 2015 12:20 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #9
There's also a lot of people who just talk like a combo is a game winning combo Named_Tawyny, and just say infinite for the sake of those who don't differentiate between combo and synergy.
July 10, 2015 1:54 a.m.
KillTheIslandUser says... #10
I know, and the problem is where it comes from. People will shorten anything and use catch-all phrases born from laziness. Combo is thrown around like the word love. How many people say love, and don't actually mean it, or really love it, but just like it a little bit.
I can say I LOVE PIZZA... do you really love pizza? No you don't, but you like it a lot. People will say things and not know what the actual term means, later on some one will copy that person cause they think it sounds cool, or what have you.
Throwing down an Avenger, and Concordant Crossroads, and Triumph of the Hordes doesn't mean I combo'd out for the win. It's not a combo, it's just synergy. Comboing out just sounds cooler, so people say it over I synergized out. Some things are literally said for use of ease.
So while I hate to say it, Named_Tawyny in fear of starting an argument... you are confusing the two, and you would be wrong.
July 10, 2015 noon
Named_Tawyny says... #11
Except I'm not confusing the two. I'm positing that there are three separate things - combos (eg: Channel + Fireball ), infinite combos (eg: Deceiver Exarch + Splinter Twin ) and then synergies (ie when two cards work well together). If you're limiting combos to only infinite combos, then you're taking out a lot that has been part of magic combos for the past two decades.
Essentially, a synergy is an interaction that makes the cards work as intended, but at added efficiency. A combo is an interaction that 'breaks' at least one of the cards - it makes the card do something that it 'shouldn't'. An infinite combo is a combo that can 'go infinite' (even though you're not actually allowed to go to infinity, you could in theory).
Really, no confusion on my side of things. You're welcome to disagree with the nomenclature (you're welcome to your opinion) but that's that.
July 10, 2015 1:54 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #12
Eh, those are debatable Named_Tawyny as there is no set definition for the magic terminology of synergy and combo. It's not like WotC has a linguistics professor (though they should) to help define everything and quell arguments and debates.
The definition of synergy in my eyes is this: "A synergy is a non-immediately-game-winning interaction between numerous cards that advances the board state to a greater extent than what would be achieved when using the cards individually."
And combo is this: "A combo is an interaction between numerous cards that effectively wins you the game once the cards/the card's abilities have been played."
And then combo basically branches off into the different styles of how you would win, by either going lock, infinite, or through a terminating win condition (like "you win the game" effects or an interaction that allows you to deal 20 unstoppable damage, things like that).
Anyways, we are deviating too far. Let's not destroy this combase's progress through pointless banter, as this kind of argument is what stopped the original combase's production.
yeaGO says... #1
Limiting according to what
July 8, 2015 11:45 p.m.