Casual vs Competitive decks
TappedOut forum
Posted on Jan. 23, 2015, 6:31 p.m. by omnipotato
I see a lot of decks in the Modern, Legacy and Vintage hubs that are casual decks. The deck builder doesn't know the format at all and probably doesn't plan on taking it to a tournament, even an FNM or LGS game day, of that format.
The main problem with this is that I see a deck called U/B Control in the Modern hub and I think, "wow, there's not many U/B control decks in modern, let me check it out and get some ideas," then it turns out he's playing cards like Cancel and Brainbite, and a bunch of random singletons, it's pretty disappointing.
I love unique decks and I definitely don't want this site to be all netdecks all the time. My suggestion is to create a sticky or a little warning message on the deck creation page that says something to the effect of "This is a competitive format which you can read about
This may come off like I'm an asshole Spike who hates new players and unique strategies but I thought I'd get it out there anyway and see what people think.
I agree. If you've ever wandered onto the vintage hub, it's all people playing casual decks because there's no real ban list.
January 23, 2015 6:36 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #4
But regardless, having the casual hub be inputted into the vintage, legacy and modern formats by default would most likely make sense due to the number of casual players on here.
Another thing to note is that many users also use the vintage format (NOT HUB PEOPLE, hubs are something different) as an indicator for other formats. Currently the highlander people use vintage as their go to from what I know.
Also, we have the competitive hub. So automatically assume that anything that doesn't have this hub is casual.
January 23, 2015 6:39 p.m.
omnipotato says... #5
Right, I meant format not hub. But if the deck is under Legacy format/Casual hub I'd be ok with that too, because at least the creator knows it's not going to be competitive in that format.
January 23, 2015 6:40 p.m.
omnipotato says... #6
When I see "competitive" hub I assume netdeck. A deck in a format which is not in the "casual" hub I assume is at least slightly competitive, but a homebrew.
January 23, 2015 6:41 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #7
If it was netdecked, then they would have to provide the url and click on the netdeck section.
January 23, 2015 6:42 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #8
My Kor Legions deck is listed as competitive :P
Same with my The Grim Reaper is Stalking Us ...., and I never netdecked that one either. Built it from scratch and it was apparently what most common tournament worthy builds look like.
January 23, 2015 6:44 p.m.
omnipotato says... #9
Not netdeck like copied exactly but a well-established deck in the format. Like if you're playing Abzan Midrange in the current standard. If you're playing Naya walkers, you can put "competitive" if you want to be judged harshly or just not put any hub because it's a homebrew.
January 23, 2015 6:44 p.m.
omnipotato says... #10
I'm not proposing a bunch of guidelines for what people should do, my suggestion was to create a small warning message on the deck creation screen. Then users could do whatever they want, as long as they know that their deck is being inputted into a competitive format.
January 23, 2015 6:46 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #11
I've stopped giving constructive criticism for this actual reason. Well, that and people getting mad when I suggest actually playable cards.
January 23, 2015 6:52 p.m.
omnipotato says... #12
fluffybunnypants That's another problem. I just saw a Dragon ramp deck in the Legacy format section, and not to put the guy who made it on the spot or anything, but he's probably not going to take my suggestion to add Sneak Attack ("Holy cow that card costs as much as the rest of my deck put together")
January 23, 2015 6:55 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #13
That's a deck that belongs in casual and there's actually zero wrong with that. I would just ask the person to instead say, "hey, sorry, this is either a) budget b) casual, thanks for the advice but.... blah blah blah." As opposed to "man, I can't do that, what are you, crazy?" "that's totally netdecking, I don't netdeck, fuck netdecking," or attempting to insult my intelligence as a player by telling me the card they are using works just as well.
January 23, 2015 7:02 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #14
Well, as most decks on here are casual decks, and most games of magic played are casual games, I feel it would make more sense to put a 'Competitive Warning' or something similar, rather than warning about casual decks. Its the classic "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" saying.
Besides, there is a competitive hub and a casual hub, and those can be used to define what you are looking for.
Im the opposite of you though, every time I open a cool sounding deck on here and find it is just a cookie cutter print of deck.dec, I sigh and think to myself the same thing as you 'waste of my time', Ive seen this deck a dozen times before, nothing new to see here. Whereas if I click on a 'casual' deck some one built, it might not be running the best cards, but chances are Im going to see a deck I have never seen before. Might even get some ideas from it, which you wont with the 3000th rehash of merfolk.
January 23, 2015 7:26 p.m.
omnipotato says... #15
RoarMaster I think what I'm looking for is in between what you think I'm saying and what you're saying. I love unique decks, and I dislike looking at Merfolk or Miracles or Affinity decks as much as you do. But there are "decks I haven't seen before" and there are "decks I haven't seen before." There are some decks on here in the Legacy or Modern formats that I could probably make better if I picked from a random assortment of 200 cards in my collection. Then there are some decks that offer interesting interactions and combos that you've never seen before, and are somewhat raw and untested, but really cool. I want to eradicate the first set of decks in order to maximize the second set.
January 23, 2015 7:51 p.m.
Ragnarocker says... #16
When I see "competitive" hub I assume netdeckor just not put any hub because it's a homebrew
And this is why I do a smug Roman face at the netdecking plebs. Because money > skill in the upper echelons of some formats.
The Casual and Competitive tags are there for a reason. My Legacy deck for example is casual as balls, because I want it to be based on viking shit. It has the Legacy and Casual tags, plain as day. My Modern deck is also a homebrew, but I've put every effort into making it as competitive as I possibly can while still putting a personal spin on it, that's why it's in the Competitive hub.
If the Casual and Competitive tags aren't enough, what might satisfy you could potentially be Homebrew and Netdeck tags. It'll save me some time as well, because if it's a Netdeck I won't even bother reading that jazz.
January 23, 2015 8:01 p.m.
omnipotato says... #17
Because money > skill in the upper echelons of some formats
That's simply wrong. Most pros can get their hands on any card they want.
As I said, I think someone who has a viking Legacy deck but is in the casual hub is totally fine, it's just when, like fluffybunnypants said, you give people suggestions on good cards in the format (Tarmogoyf in Modern, Jace, the Mind Sculptor in Legacy, etc.), they yell at you. If you don't want those suggestions, don't put it in that format.
January 23, 2015 8:07 p.m.
omnipotato says... #18
Ragnarocker Your Legacy deck is not a Legacy deck. You have no interest in ever entering a Legacy tournament with that deck, and if you play against any other deck that's popular in the format, you'd get creamed turn 3 or 4 every time. It's a perfect example of a deck that should be in the Casual and not Legacy format. The hub is nice because it lets me know that you can't afford the more expensive cards in the format, but I don't see the hub if you deckcycle or post the deck in a thread. I'd assume that it's some cool G/R Legacy homebrew, but it's a casual theme deck.
Just because a deck is Legacy-legal doesn't make it a Legacy deck. Every single EDH deck is legacy-legal. Does that mean we should start putting EDH decks into the Legacy format?
January 23, 2015 8:18 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #19
That's exactly right. Look, I don't a fuck what the hell you build, that's completely up to you. If you're running a blue control list in Legacy without the casual tag on it and you don't have Jace, the Mind Sculptor in your list, I'm probably suggesting it. Why? It's one of the very best blue control cards in the format, and if you're serious about playing that deck in Legacy, you should probably have it in your deck.
See, you're doing it right, but some (read: a lot) do not. So, when I make a serious suggestion they get all offended when they could've just as easily tagged it correctly and I wouldn't have wasted my time in the first place or left a comment that points in a different direction (i.e. damn, it feels good to be a viking). Otherwise I just feel like vanquishing the individual and drinking mead out of their skull.
January 23, 2015 8:19 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #20
I think there seems to be some confusion about what a format is. Just because a deck is Legacy legal, and thus labeled as Legacy, does in no way relate too that deck being played in Legacy tournaments. A lot of people on this thread seem to confusing this.
omnipotato You did this when you said "Ragnarocker Your Legacy deck is not a Legacy deck. You have no interest in ever entering a Legacy tournament with that deck, and if you play against any other deck that's popular in the format, you'd get creamed turn 3 or 4 every time. It's a perfect example of a deck that should be in the Casual and not Legacy format."
Your above statement is untrue. His deck is a legacy deck, just not a competitive legacy deck. Two completely different animals. He should have it labeled as Legacy, since it is a legacy legal deck, but he should also have the casual hub probably, because, as you said, it would not hold up well to competitive legacy deck.
Going by your standards, a non-competitive modern deck is not actually a modern deck, a non-competetive standard deck is not actually standard, ect ect. Any deck that is not meant for tournament play is non-format in your eyes. And unless you play in tournaments, you are never going to play a format game in your life.
Buddy walks up to someone at your LGS, "Hey, you want to play a game of standard?"Other person "I cant, non of my decks are standard, even though they are standard legal, sorry'
Makes no sense.
All legacy legal decks are legacy, but not all legacy decks are competitive.
January 23, 2015 8:42 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #21
Side-point, most EDH decks run Sol Ring, making them not actually legacy legal. Thats what defines a decks format, the legally allowable cards, not the quality of the cards involved in the deck.
January 23, 2015 8:44 p.m.
Ragnarocker says... #22
but he should also have the casual hub probably
Which is why I listed it as Casual. :)>
January 23, 2015 8:44 p.m.
omnipotato says... #23
If I can easily beat a "Legacy" deck with a Standard deck, that's a casual deck. That's just my opinion I guess, but I wouldn't walk around with that deck IRL and say, "Hey guys, I have a Legacy deck! Let's play Legacy."
January 23, 2015 8:50 p.m.
omnipotato says... #24
Not all Legacy-legal decks are Legacy. My standard decks are all Legacy-legal. That doesn't make them Legacy decks. Not all Legacy decks are competitive. There are Legacy homebrews that can win against a couple of the top tier decks and can hold their own against decks with a bunch of Force of Wills and Jace, the Mind Sculptors, and then there are casual decks.
January 23, 2015 8:52 p.m.
This is an interesting topic.
what i would say is that everyone needs to remember is that there are alot of different calibers of players and there are lots of players with different budgets and they all have different tastes/ expectations.
There is no perfect system. the fan base is too large and that is the GOOD and also bad truth of the subject.
with the large influx of new players there will be lots of copycats and people who use others ideas while they learn. lots of us did it and it isn't going to change.
in other words. there isn't anything that can be done about it other than looking through a LOT of decks.
yeaGO opinion? maybe another Hub to add is Competitve Rogue, IE homebrew compettion decks?
idk like i said there is no perfect system
January 23, 2015 9:35 p.m.
Isn't there an advanced search option where you can select what format and his you want to search?
If anything, the advanced search should be set to descending order (most recently cycled first) to default. Then that solves everyone's problem and you can give your constructive criticism to someone that may actually need/want it.
Femme_Fatale says... #2
You are not talking about hubs, you are talking about formats. We have a casual format and a casual hub too. Case in point, look at the hubs here:
Melted Metal Playtest
Legacy* Femme_Fatale
SCORE: 42 | 15 COMMENTS | 3586 VIEWSJanuary 23, 2015 6:36 p.m.