Combo Detection
TappedOut forum
Posted on Dec. 20, 2013, 3:08 p.m. by yeaGO
Hey all,
You will now notice some additional features surrounding MTG combos.
1) Mentioning combos such as Channel + Fireball (that's bracket bracket channel plus fireball bracket bracket) will now aggregate discussion on the new combo pages
2) Mentioning combos and key synergies in your deck descriptions will provide YET ANOTHER place for your deck to cycle to. This uses the above syntax.
Enjoy.
Unforgivn_II says... #3
That's pretty cool. Does it only do certain ones that have been entered? Or does it start adding them as we post combos in that syntax?
December 20, 2013 3:16 p.m.
Anything that matches the syntax is now considered a combo. Hopefully there aren't any deal-breaking exceptions to this rule.
Also, only 2nd and 3rd order combos register. for now.
December 20, 2013 3:19 p.m.
It does not appear to look at deck descriptions as I just tried to update one.
Voyaging Satyr + Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx being the example.
December 20, 2013 3:19 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
We may want to implement some kind of control for this system because people have a habit of mentioning "combos" that aren't actually combos at all.
December 20, 2013 3:22 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Also, the ability for rule-savvy users to add a description to these combo pages might be useful. That way, we can explain how the combo works in cases where it's not obvious what the interaction is.
December 20, 2013 3:23 p.m.
I have occasionally used that format to mention certain useful interactions between cards that are potent but not necessarily combos so I agree with Epochalyptik with needed some sort of way to control that.
December 20, 2013 3:35 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #12
I'd put in variable terms like "sacrifice outlet", that will save a lot of redundancy. those could be tagged to the card pages, offering the possibility to search for alternatives.
Also, it would be cool if the plus sign would automatically be made a bit bigger, maybe even button-like so it can easily be clicked or tapped and link to the combo page.
Now I'm going to ask google what 2nd and 3rd order means and then check the combase out...
December 20, 2013 3:51 p.m.
atreyujames says... #14
So how does one find said combo pages. I've been looking around the site and I can't find them
December 20, 2013 4:04 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #15
That's probably going to to be implemented soon, for now I'm going to alter this link in my descriptions...
http://tappedout.net/mtg-combos/channel+fireball/
December 20, 2013 4:09 p.m.
smash10101 says... #16
I'm with Triforce-Finder on that one. Also, I have a deck where there are a lot of important interactions (such as Wheel of Fortune
with Nekusar, the Mindrazer
) which don't fall under the common definition of combo, but are still really important. What should we do about that sort of thing? (also, Nekusar, the Mindrazer
and Elder Mastery
, combo or not?)
I would say, go through the card database looking for all wheel cards, and give them a "wheel" tag. We could do the same with all sac outlets (all, or just ones with sac as the only cost?). (And yes, I do volunteer for that.) The tag thing would make T/O a better search engine for combos than gatherer.
Another option is to have some sort of parenthesis thing where you go (card or card or card) + (card or card). This would add customization so you could show which sac outlets or whatever you have in your deck and let you do things we wouldn't normally want to tag (like Mnemonic Wall and the ilk).
Last point (for this post), UPDATE THE TUTORIAL/FORMATTING TIPS PAGE WITH THE NEW INFO (maybe once we figure out how we want it to work). A blacklist will help keep unwanted 'combos' from getting tagged, but Epochalyptik can't be here 24/7 (I actually was thinking that we needed to Clone him anyways, before he got new responsibilities). The best way to avoid people from using the combo tag wrong is to tell them how to use it right. Put (in an obvious place) how to tag combos, what is a combo, what's not a combo, how to search by combo, how to search by tag (if we do that). Really, this site just needs a nice, big, obviously located FAQ. (I was planning on making one over winter break anyways.)
December 20, 2013 4:13 p.m.
doinitwrong says... #17
Go to the card's page. The combos are on the righthand column, all the way down.
December 20, 2013 4:17 p.m.
I think of it as combos / synergy... so while it may not be a combo per se, it does represent excellent synergy and therefore is still valuable..
as for the combos, you can go to one of the card pages and usually its combos appears on the bottom right.
December 20, 2013 4:24 p.m.
So this is currently only 2 card combos? I noticed that Elite Arcanist Triton Tactics and Zhur-Taa Druid doesn't show up as a combo right now.
December 20, 2013 4:33 p.m.
I've changed the syntax of my Teneb deck so it now has - Reveillark + Karmic Guide , as one example and, Reveillark + Karmic Guide + Saffi Eriksdotter as another.
Is the first combo what you would refer to as 2nd order and the second combo what you would refer to as 3rd order? yeaGO! ?
When will they show up on the page?
December 20, 2013 4:36 p.m.
doinitwrong says... #21
My guess is that 2nd and 3rd order combos just mean combos with that many cards. So Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood is 2nd order while Elite Arcanist + Triton Tactics + Zhur-Taa Druid is 3rd order.
I put a bunch of combos in the description of one of my decks, but they don't show up as combos. Do they have to be mentioned in comments to get combo pages?
December 20, 2013 4:41 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #22
I did exactly that with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed , but no effect is visible yet. I think it will take some time to update...
December 20, 2013 4:44 p.m.
Check the 'key combos' item on the right hand side of decks.
December 20, 2013 4:45 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #24
Is it just my browser (firefox for android) , or is the card page for Channel screwed up for you others too?
It looks like the card data and some comments became part of the comment at the bottom...
December 20, 2013 4:59 p.m.
I don't have a 'key combos' bit on the right of my deck :(
December 20, 2013 5:03 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #27
Sorry for posting that Channel problem here. I thought it was connected to the update, but it apparently isn't since the fireball page is displayed normally.
Got no key combos either. I'll edit a deck now to be sure...
December 20, 2013 5:35 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #28
So, I added Channel , Fireball and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn to my chart tester deck and clicked "refresh charts", but still no key combos item.
Can someone link a deck that has it?
December 20, 2013 5:54 p.m.
On this deck - Reanimation; the Oppressive Nation
Under the heading 'sacrifice combos that give you infinite ETBs', I have written Reveillark + Karmic Guide and a few other examples. Nothing is showing up on the right.
December 20, 2013 7:07 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #31
Ah, okay... testing... Yes, now it works. Thanks for the help.
I thought it would scan the decklist and tell me all the combos i've got...
December 20, 2013 7:11 p.m.
Does this still not work for 3 card combos since Elite Arcanist +Triton Tactics +Zhur-Taa Druid isn't showing up?
December 20, 2013 7:13 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #33
How do we differentiate "synergy" from "combos"? Should combos be things that straight up end the game?
December 20, 2013 7:41 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #34
Combos are designated as cards whose abilities only react with only one or two other cards, and whose sole purpose is for that interaction. For example Thoughtseize + Death's Shadow is synergy, whereas Grimoire Thief + Paradise Mantle + Freed from the Real is a combo.
Also, about how to link to a combo, yeaGO!:
[ [ combo:Channel+Fireball ] ]
Putting the cards in alphabetical order. This would prevent accidentally referencing the combo without actually mentioning the combo.
December 20, 2013 8:49 p.m.
I'm a little confused on the syntax.
So within a single set of double brackets you have both cards joined with a +. For multi-word names of cards, should you hyphenate? Should you use spaces?
A clearer breakdown would be swell.
I love the idea though.
December 20, 2013 11:01 p.m.
So just link the cards separately with a + between them? Nice.
December 20, 2013 11:04 p.m.
How full is the combase right now? Because Quick-Draw Kami isn't listing Mind Over Matter + Temple Bell or Mind Over Matter + Otherworld Atlas as combos right now.
December 21, 2013 12:13 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #40
I don't think there are any combos besides the Fireball +Channel combo right now erabel. I think yeaGO! is making the page for upgraded users to add the combos themselves. It would be a lot quicker and easier to manage then him doing all of them himself.
December 21, 2013 1:01 a.m.
doinitwrong says... #41
Femme_Fatale- I've noticed a lot of cards that have combo links, like Exquisite Blood , Phyrexian Altar , Avenger of Zendikar , and Mana Echoes .
December 21, 2013 1:06 a.m.
smash10101 says... #42
As usual, something I would be happy to help with, but can't because I'm not an upgraded user. Isn't turning off adblock enough for you yeaGO!? We need a page for Island + Storm Crow ]] right now.
December 21, 2013 1:07 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #43
Oh right, thanks for the info doinitwrong, and sorry for the wrong info erabel.
I also want to point out an error in the coding yeaGO!, my deck Kor Legions has the combo Lightning Greaves + Paradise Mantle listed, but it won't show. I did a bit of trouble-shooting and found it was because I had Lightning Greaves + Paradise Mantle + Puresteel Paladin and Auriok Steelshaper + Lightning Greaves + Paradise Mantle listed as combos as well for when they do get added eventually.
December 21, 2013 1:23 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #44
How is Blood Artist + Lightning Greaves a combo? There seem to be many in here that aren't actually combos ...
December 21, 2013 1:31 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #45
Finally, I think the / should be implemented for when we want to list different choices for one card in a combo. For example, the Cowardice + Lightning Greaves + Ornithopter combo for infinite bounces could also be Cowardice + Ornithopter + Shuko . So having Cowardice + Lightning Greaves /Shuko + Ornithopter respond as both would be nice. I just noticed that as I was looking at a previous comment.
December 21, 2013 1:37 a.m.
JaredMatthewsArtwork says... #46
If this site could also introduce pm boxes somehow that would be awesome. Idk how much programming that requires so I have no idea how much I'm asking of you
December 21, 2013 1:53 a.m.
smash10101 says... #48
I assume he means something like an inbox where you can receive PMs. You know, because there is currently no way to privately contact other T/O users other than making a privet deck to comment on.
December 21, 2013 2:03 a.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #49
How does it come that serious combos take forever to register, but stuff like "mountain and Burst Lightning " get in the key combos items of more decks than they should?
December 21, 2013 9:42 a.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #50
Sorry, t'was mountain and Kiln Fiend , messed that up.
smash10101 says... #2
That looks really cool. It'll also make people write better descriptions of their decks (I love it when people have really detailed deck descriptions.) Thanks yeaGO!!
December 20, 2013 3:12 p.m.