Cube for the Simulator
TappedOut forum
Posted on Aug. 2, 2010, 4:26 p.m. by bosheck
Would it be possible, to (within a reasonble span of time) put together TappedOut's own cube for the draft simulator?
Would it make a reasonable sort of community project, even?
Should be easy to do, I just need to know specifically how it works.
August 3, 2010 9:58 a.m.
SocialistElite says... #4
Basically, we need a list of the 500+ best cards in magic EVER. That would be the first step. It'd be cool if we made the list as a community. MAybe make an article saying, everyone post what they think the 100 best blue cards are, or the 50 best lands, or whatnot. Then you cross reference the lists to see what come up the most, and those cards are included into the cube.
The next step is to put it into the draft sim. Yeago, is it possible to make the draft sim entirely singleton? Because if it isn't, then I don't think making a Community Cube would be entirely worth it.
August 3, 2010 10:18 a.m.
So basically we just need to establish some cube sets. Can't we just pick randomly? Is it really reasonable to determine the 'best' cards?
Singleton aka no duplicates? Sure.
August 3, 2010 10:23 a.m.
Well some cards are no brainers. You throw in your P9, your tournament winning staples over past years, and then leave debate open over the last few slots.
But one of the best things about cube drafting is that every cube is different. It only makes sense that we, as a community, would collectively create the meanest, baddest, most draft-tastic cube on the (from every!) block.
August 3, 2010 12:45 p.m.
Interesting. Well if there's any interest in establishing a few interesting cubes to choose from, I am open to hosting cube drafting on TappedOut.
I'd like to know specifically what cubes you guys would come up with.
Or if anyone else has an idea about how to establish cubes. Is it something individual people would want to do on their own?
August 3, 2010 12:49 p.m.
nammertime says... #8
Here's an old article on what a cube is and what should be in it.
Also, many people on the site already have their own cubes (and good ones), but I do think having the entire community (or the participating part of it) pitch in to vote or something would be cool.
August 3, 2010 2:32 p.m.
Cube drafting IS IN. Go load your cube decks in and see for yourself.
August 4, 2010 10:12 p.m.
Could someone make a comment on all of the cube decks about converting them to cubes and drafting them?
August 5, 2010 4:16 p.m.
Thanks Nammer.
If anyone's active @ mtgsalvation, maybe make mention in their forums. =).
Just sayin'
August 5, 2010 5:17 p.m.
nammertime says... #14
I'll pass the message if I happen to be browsing on the site. I find the mods there to be WAY too strict, throwing warnings left and right and typing in bold red in everyone's posts. Some people (like me) make rookie mistakes and get warned, messaged and other junk right off the bat! Not cool.
August 5, 2010 6:03 p.m.
SocialistElite says... #15
Do you guys mind if I try to organize a community cube?
August 5, 2010 9:04 p.m.
"I find the mods there to be WAY too strict, throwing warnings left and right and typing in bold red in everyone's posts."
This might be true for the general forums, where there is a lot of flaming/trolling + people that are convinced that their budget vampires list is the deck to beat for the upcoming ptq or players that post made up results.
The Cube subforum beats out any other constructed forum on this MTGS by post count and still you have to go months back until you find a post where one of the moderators has to issue a warning / infraction.
August 6, 2010 8:07 a.m.
I wouldn't mind at all of you oragnized a community one, SocialistElite -- I was hoping this would happen!
also, thanks yeaGO! You're awesome!
August 6, 2010 9:29 a.m.
socialist-elite, we could make an article about it. And make it a community activity. Let me know if you want to do that and we can get started.
August 6, 2010 9:43 a.m.
nammertime says... #20
@eidolon:
I don't wanna get too much into it, but I don't even check that part of the forums. I read the speculation, rumor and storyline threads normally, and warnings are thrown left and right for very questionable reasons.
Back on track with this thread: SocialistElite, if you could do that, we would support you. It's great to have people with initiative!
August 6, 2010 11:06 a.m.
@ Eidolon. Cool, well make mention there if you'd like. Also, thank you very much for the detailed information you sent me. Its going to help improve the system here a lot.
August 6, 2010 11:09 a.m.
@yeaGO!: I have posted something there + you should get a response per mail, soon.
@nammertime: The cubers are a small but very active community (the 3 card evaluation threads have >10000 replies together) so the people get to know + respect each other and there is almost no need for the mods to get active.
I am managing a comparison project in another forum, which also features a list of the 720 most common cube cards, this might be a good starting point for cards to vote for. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=241662
These are the votes we did on mtgs, that has some interesting info, but is still a few months old: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=221992 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=219798
August 6, 2010 4:41 p.m.
SocialistElite says... #23
@squire: that'd be really cool if we could do that.
@eidolon: Thanks man. Those are really useful. Ill definately use 'em.
I guess the first step is deciding how many cards we should play, and what type of cube it should be (pwered, or regular). Then we can take the lists of commonly used cube cards for that type of cube and then have the community vote on which they like, and which they REALLY don't like. Each card will get +1 points for a like, and -1 points for a dislike. Once a card gets x points, itll get included into thecuve. After we decided to stop voting, we put those cards into the cube, and then debate about other cards we may want into the cube (being more specific on color/type this time), create a new list, and vote again. Continue until we have a cube.
Does that sound good to everyone?
August 7, 2010 10:42 a.m.
@SocialistElite: Even if I think that an unpowered cube is more fun, I would use the powered lists as a basis, since this ensures that cards aren't left out for budget reasons (which is unnecessary if you are drafting them online). Aside from the P9, Library of Alexandria and Gorilla Shaman , there aren't any common cards that are only played in powered cubes, aside from those cube designers that want to add some narrow hate cards, like Null Rod .
As for the size, I would prefer something between 450 and 540 cards, since 360 cubes are very power oriented and you have to exclude a lot of good cards, while if you play with too much cards, there aren't enough good cards in certain slots, like white 4 mana creatures or cheap blue creatures / counters. After we know how many cards we want in this cube, we should vote for the distribution between the wubrg, artifact, gold and land section, how many cards should be in each of them and how we count certain cards
(For example is ...
Kird Ape a red card?
Desolation Angel a black card?
Spectral Procession a creature?
Krosan Tusker a spell?
Vedalken Shackles a blue card? )
and whether or not we want to have the colored utility lands in our land section or in their color (which would allow us to run 3 of them in blue and only one in black, that has basically nothing else except card:Volrath's Stronghold). Now we could vote for the top over each subsection separately (to keep everything small and comprehensible), while I generate a list twice as big as the number of cards that we need for that particular section + let the other users add suggestions that they think need to be on that list (like a week in advance).
Other interesting questions are: Is there a tool to create pols on this website or do we have to use an extern site for this? Should the votes be private or public?
August 7, 2010 12:01 p.m.
nammertime says... #25
@eidolon
Yeah, I suppose that section of the forums is pretty good, after having checked it out.
Also, I'm not sure if this site has polls, but I'm not really afraid of a vote of mine being public for this kind of thing, you know?
@SocialistElite
Sounds good, anything you decide goes. I'm not the one taking care of this, lol.
August 7, 2010 2:30 p.m.
I brought my cube list over from MTGS. If anyone wants to take a look through it or draft it, they're more than welcome to. We can discuss card selections on my page if people have any questions.
Cheers!
August 7, 2010 2:36 p.m.
SocialistElite says... #27
I am completely willing to do the poll manually. I don't mind. I actually kind of enjoy using excel! :P
I think that an open debate on what cards are good, and aren't good, is important. I've heard amazing arguments for REALLY random cards. (Like Piracy , Dragonspeaker Shaman , Caribou Range , and Mercy Killing ) If we can find a few cards that are unique to our cube, I think that will be a very good thing.
When it comes to cards like Kird Ape , I usually include them in the multicolor slot.
August 7, 2010 10:07 p.m.
Other questions are: -How many people want to be part of this in the first place, since it wouldn't be worth the effort if we only start with like 10 people for white and end up with half a dozen at the end of the voting process.
-How much would your votes be different from the cards that you play in your own cube?
If it is nothing but a repetition of the cards you are playing +/-50 to get to the needed size (+ power?), we could just use my tool (or a modified version of it) to generate the tappedout cube with only cubes from this site, without the need of a voting process that takes months. This would also have the advantage, that the list would still be relevant once a new set comes out.
You could even somehow try to integrate something with similar functionality on your site, which would make it very attractive for everybody who manages his cube in a digital form.
August 8, 2010 8:22 a.m.
Sorry for digging out this old thread, but apparently, the "create a sample pack"-function for the cubes only shows 2 columns atm (the table layout works fine, though).
Link: http://tappedout.net/mtg-cube-drafts/eidolons-cube/generate-pack/?p=6001+2622+3632+12030+11660+1802+11452+2478+6137+6459+11912+12331+2017+9464+11455
October 12, 2010 9:04 a.m.
@eidolon -- you only see two columns? can you send me a screen shot to stephen at tappedout?
October 12, 2010 12:31 p.m.
I have mailed you the screenshot. OS: Windows 7 (64 bit) Browser: Firefox
October 12, 2010 12:43 p.m.
Edit: The problem also exists on Internet Explorer, but Chrome has no problems displaying the pack.
SocialistElite says... #2
That would be really sweet. I totally second this. Id even be willing to run it, if someone can come up with a reasonable way to do it.
August 2, 2010 11:01 p.m.