New hubs to be added
TappedOut forum
Posted on Nov. 12, 2020, 12:28 a.m. by legendofa
Hi all, I'm one of the people who adds hubs, I'm back from an unexpectedly long break, and I'm working on adding some new stuff. Suggestions I'm looking at are Uro, Mutate, Miracles, Doomsday, Adventures, Devoted Druid, and Blink. Please let me know of any other suggestions, or discussions on the ones I listed, and I'll get to work.
Also, what did I miss with the DragonShield superhero stuff?
Femme_Fatale Was there an announcement that MH2 was going to prominently feature coin flipping? Yusri, Fortune's Flame is there, but I'm not sure that's going to be radically different from Okaun+Zndrsplt. What are you expecting for the hub once MH2 is fully listed?
A lot of decks currently coming up in a hub search for "Coin Flip" have a hub just called "Flip", without the Coin part. If I may pull out a couple of specific examples, RNJesus has Coin Flip, while Try Your Luck has Flip, despite being created and updated earlier today and having only one DFC and no Kamigawa flips. I just played with the hub formatting a little bit while writing this. It does look like Flip should only come up with the actual Kamigawa mechanic, and I just tried different combinations of Coin Flip and Flip, with and without Kamigawa flips, and everything appeared to work as it should.
Would you know anything about the deeper programming, and should this conversation be moved off of this thread?
May 24, 2021 12:51 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #3
legendofa, it's because I have to remove the flip keyword from some coinflipping cards.
May 24, 2021 6:08 p.m.
wegnerdevin says... #4
Do we have a Politics hub? We have Aikido, but that feels like more of a "Use your opponents momentum against them" theme than it does a "Use your opponents to your advantage" theme.
May 24, 2021 10:08 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #5
wegnerdevin: We do not, because everything in commander is politics so it doesn't really make sense to make a hub of that.
May 25, 2021 8:16 p.m.
Cardholderdoe says... #6
Well, there are certainly decks that are more politically themed than others designed to make the game more board gamey than it already is. Zedruu was one of the first five, after all.
June 1, 2021 5 a.m.
I disagree with the thought that the whole game is politics. Many players, the vast majority, are not a fan of politics at the table. Then there are actual playstyles that involve mechanical politics, like humble defector, and secret rendezvous, and so on and so forth. The Silverquill deck is a perfect example of a political deck and how it goes above and beyond being that theme compared to a typical deck that someone COULD argue is a political deck because they attempt to make political choices.
June 1, 2021 12:07 p.m.
Cardholderdoe says... #8
Bongus ain't wrong (well that was a fun sentence). There are a lot of commander decks who focus on this as the feature rather than "a bug" that a lot of players treat it as.
June 1, 2021 3:31 p.m.
wegnerdevin says... #9
I think the counter-argument here would be that "politics" itself at its most generous; is a matter of play-style, and at least; an unavoidable byproduct of participating in a zero-sum game; and that some mechanics lend themselves to a more "Machiavellian" playstyle, but can themselves subdivided into categories like "Group Hug", "Aikido", and "Control". Maybe what should be argued for is a hub for "Deception" or "Social Manipulation", because I think that's what a lot of people seem to think of when they think of "politics".
June 1, 2021 4:59 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #10
Politics is unavoidable. That's just what is going to happen in a multiplayer game. Trust me, game developers have been trying for decades to try and make a free for all multiplayer game not also contain politics, but the moment when one player is doing better than everyone else, they become a target by everyone else. It doesn't matter how hard players try and not make it a thing with their games, it is going to happen. It's in the very nature of free for all multiplayer games.
June 1, 2021 8:17 p.m.
wegnerdevin As I see it, Deception or Social Manipulation are part of the game around the table, not in the cards. Bongus mentions cards like Humble Defector and Secret Rendezvous that may help gain allies, but I would consider those under Group Hug. If you're only supporting one person, that's not a viable long-term strategy that I've seen, nor is it a deck archetype.
Let me ask this of the people who want a Politics hub or similar: How would you define it clearly and concisely in at most two short sentences, without simply defining multiplayer games and social interaction?
June 2, 2021 12:23 a.m.
While I mentioned two cards that would also be clear group hug cards legendofa, that's not all I see politics as of course. I simply didn't go deep, for reasons of time, attention, mental disorders, etc. Anyway, incentivizing hostile actions elsewhere, deterring hostile actions towards yourself, and all manner of effects that cause behaviors to change or deals to be made is more politics than group hug.
Secret Rendezvous is a "What will you do for me if I give you three cards?"
Curse of Disturbance motivates swings against an opponent.
Cunning Rhetoric deters swings against ourselves.
Sure Femme_Fatale there are political deals that can be made without anything similar to those effects (and many more I'm missing that would be more relevant), but that doesn't make a deck a politics deck. Knowing a deck can focus on those effects and make a drastically different playstyle than the typical "politics" (however you would define it) you see at your playgroup should be enough for a hub fitting that playstyle to be added. Maybe the hub shouldn't be named politics if your view is too cemented on that particular word?
legendofa "How would you define it clearly and concisely in at most two short sentences, without simply defining multiplayer games and social interaction?" I would define it this way. A politics deck changes the behavior of other players through strategies that deter or encourage actions to your benefit. It's a value-focused style where your enemies duel it out & leave you alone while out-valuing them. Whether others agree or disagree with the semantics of the portions above, it's important to reiterate: Politics in general gameplay and a deck focused on it are very different. A deck focused on it alters game choices to a much greater magnitude and frequency.
June 3, 2021 12:32 p.m.
B0NGUS I'm not going to short-list Politics yet, but I'll long-list it. A couple of points about your definition: The first sentence, I would argue, is still too broad, since virtually every deck, from the most linear aggro to the most reactive control, is designed to influence opponent's actions to your benefit. The second sentence is better, but is still pretty comparable to defensive hubs like Pillow Fort.
Keeping this open for discussion, does anyone have any feedback on this definition?
June 3, 2021 2:02 p.m.
wegnerdevin says... #15
I don't want to play "both sides" here in an ironic attempt at enlightened centrism... but here I go anyway; I think what's important to note is the focus and intention of the deck-builder. If a player includes cards that are meant to evoke and invoke the application of politics to a predicted situation, then the card list may be different from that of one who only included cards as a means to elevate their proportional power level.
I think "finding the political line" is something of a continuum fallacy, what does it mean to be Aggro? Don't all decks have to employ some amount of aggression? Most certainly, but there's obviously a distinction between some players who will focus on "aggression" over other means of game play, and I think that's all there is to be communicated in regards to definitions. It's a squishy and subjective metric, and maybe that means it doesn't deserve attention.I'd think that to be an entirely fair point of view.
June 3, 2021 9:31 p.m.
wegnerdevin That's absolutely fair, and politicalness is a good metric for a multiplayer deck. I'm just not quite sure it fits the requirements of a deck hub, which is a unique, identifiable, and clearly defined archetype or strategy with sufficient variability. It has the unique part going for it, and there's some good motion toward defining it. The part I'm still hung up before making it a full hub is identifiable. What make one deck political, but not another?
June 3, 2021 9:53 p.m.
BlazinJsin says... #17
Can you add a Kaleidoscope hub? It's not specifically rainbow. The deck constraint is that all nonland cards must be multicolor.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Kaleidoscope
June 4, 2021 8:59 p.m.
wolfhead Domain is selectable as a mechanic checkbox, separate from the drop-down hub list.
BlazinJsin I'll pass the request for Kaleidoscope on to yeaGO, since it would be a format rather than a hub. The format list already has a lot of small, fairly obscure formats already, though.
I also saw a request for Treasure, but that's another one I have some concerns about regarding overuse. Any EDH deck that has three treasure cards out of 100 can add it, and I worry Treasure-centric decks would get overwhelmed by decks that happen to create some Treasure tokens.
June 6, 2021 12:56 a.m.
BlazinJsin says... #20
Kaleidoscope doesn't really matter what format you play though, it's just a theme. I applied it to EDH and built a deck within the constraints.
June 6, 2021 1:05 a.m.
I think the main issue with adding a political/politics hub is everyone with one monarch card will slap the tag on their deck and it will become diluted
June 6, 2021 3:43 p.m.
BlazinJsin says... #24
I just put my sliver horde deck list in and it doesn't like that I have 38 metallic slivers, so yeah I still think making it a format is probably best. I used Unknown format, which I really don't think should have hard limits like that.
June 8, 2021 12:13 a.m.
BotaNickill says... #27
I recently started building a (Cheerios) deck. Is there a hub for that?
July 3, 2021 1:02 p.m.
Cardholderdoe says... #28
Sorry to chime back in on the politics subject if it's a dead horse, but the argument that "oh if you include a board wipe or a monarch card, then people are just going to flag it as political"... I'd have to disagree with. Mechanics like Monarch on their own, particularly to commander don't have to be political - if you're in a deck that always has a free blocker or two for instance, you can try to run monarch cards as legitimate opportunities for card advantage.
The argument for board wipes is more vague since it's considered standard that you'd include somewhere between 2-5 wipes in any commander deck just as a matter of fact. Playing them can and sometimes is a political move, but a lot of that time is just giving yourself more time to deal your next play, while theoretically helping others in turn order after you a bit? Sure it involves politics, but nothing more than an other wipe play within the format.
There's a whole swath of cards and mechanics out there designed to go for political deals and such every turn, and do - opponent incentive cures, vows, hug mechanics, creature swap cards like switcheroo that don't necessarily have to benefit you, but create deals at the table.
I'd say that I don't think many people with a set theme that doesn't involve these would automatically tag every deck "politics", but it could open up a new tag for people to swap ideas on.
... More to the point, and I can't recall if I brought this up before, but mistagging isn't unique to this kind of idea.
I'm still relatively new to the site, and up until a recent point I had my Riku deck tagged as "Xerox" because I assumed from the title it was the new hot slang for "copying stuff" :P
I was later corrected and removed it.
The general idea of a political deck will be what it says - brokering deal sand making situations that benefit everyone, and then making a move to put yourself at the top after all but maybe one opponent is gone. I won't say there's an argument there that every commander deck is built like that or even that it's built into the format, but I can't think of many people who would consider their deck a politics deck without having some amount of interaction from other players and the ability to broker deals that benefit multiple parties.
Again, sorry if this is a dead topic. I'm just doing some MH2 edits today and trying to catch up on my pings. Please ignore if I'm being a dummy.
July 3, 2021 2:42 p.m.
Hello legendofa,
I propose a new hub to be added: Phyrexian. During Modern Horizons 2, 225 creatures were retconned into having the Phyrexian creature subtype to join Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider . Additionally, there were a smattering of Enchantments, Artifacts and etc that ether have the Phyrexian subtype or create creature tokens that do. Thanks to this retcon I now have a deck that has a Phyrexian tribal theme. For your reference, below is a full list of spells that were affected by WotC's Phyrexian errata.
Source: https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Phyrexian
- Ascendant Evincar
- Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
- Belbe, Corrupted Observer
- Blackcleave Goblin
- Blade Splicer
- Blight Mamba
- Blighted Agent
- Blightsteel Colossus
- Blightwidow
- Blind Zealot
- Blinding Souleater
- Blistergrub
- Body Snatcher
- Bone Shredder
- Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer
- Brutalizer Exarch
- Carnifex Demon
- Cathedral Membrane
- Caustic Hound
- Chained Throatseeker
- Chancellor of the Annex
- Chancellor of the Dross
- Chancellor of the Forge
- Chancellor of the Spires
- Chancellor of the Tangle
- Commander Greven il-Vec
- Contagious Nim
- Core Prowler
- Corpse Cur
- Corrupted Harvester
- Crazed Skirge
- Cystbearer
- Darkslick Drake
- Death-Hood Cobra
- Dementia Bat
- Devouring Strossus
- Dross Hopper
- Dross Ripper
- Eastern Paladin
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
- Entomber Exarch
- Ertai, the Corrupted
- Etched Monstrosity
- Eviscerator
- Ezuri, Claw of Progress
- Fallen Ferromancer
- First-Sphere Gargantua
- Flameborn Viron
- Flensermite
- Flesh Reaver
- Flesh-Eater Imp
- Fume Spitter
- Furnace Scamp
- Gallowbraid
- Geth, Lord of the Vault
- Glissa, the Traitor
- Glissa's Courier
- Glistener Elf
- Gore Vassal
- Greven, Predator Captain
- Hand of the Praetors
- Hex Parasite
- Hollow Dogs
- Ichor Rats
- Ichorclaw Myr
- Ich-Tekik, Salvage Splicer
- Immolating Souleater
- Impaler Shrike
- Inquisitor Exarch
- Insatiable Souleater
- Invader Parasite
- Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
- Keskit, the Flesh Sculptor
- Kiln Walker
- K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
- Lost Leonin
- Loxodon Convert
- Marauding Knight
- Massacre Wurm
- Master Splicer
- Maul Splicer
- Moltensteel Dragon
- Morinfen
- Mortis Dogs
- Mycosynth Fiend
- Myr Sire
- Necrogen Scudder
- Necropede
- Nested Ghoul
- Oculus
- Ogre Menial
- Order of Yawgmoth
- Perilous Myr
- Pestilent Souleater
- Phyrexian Battleflies
- Phyrexian Bloodstock
- Phyrexian Broodlings
- Phyrexian Colossus
- Phyrexian Crusader
- Phyrexian Debaser
- Phyrexian Defiler
- Phyrexian Delver
- Phyrexian Denouncer
- Phyrexian Devourer
- Phyrexian Digester
- Phyrexian Dreadnought
- Phyrexian Driver
- Phyrexian Gargantua
- Phyrexian Ghoul
- Phyrexian Gremlins
- Phyrexian Hulk
- Phyrexian Hydra
- Phyrexian Infiltrator
- Phyrexian Ingester
- Phyrexian Ironfoot
- Phyrexian Juggernaut
- Phyrexian Marauder
- Phyrexian Metamorph
- Phyrexian Monitor
- Phyrexian Negator
- Phyrexian Obliterator
- Phyrexian Plaguelord
- Phyrexian Prowler
- Phyrexian Rager
- Phyrexian Reaper
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Phyrexian Scuta
- Phyrexian Slayer
- Phyrexian Snowcrusher
- Phyrexian Soulgorger
- Phyrexian Swarmlord
- Phyrexian Triniform
- Phyrexian Vatmother
- Phyrexian Walker
- Phyrexian War Beast
- Pierce Strider
- Pith Driller
- Plague Dogs
- Plague Engineer
- Plague Myr
- Plague Spitter
- Plague Stinger
- Plaguemaw Beast
- Porcelain Legionnaire
- Priest of Gix
- Priest of Urabrask
- Priest of Yawgmoth
- Priests of Norn
- Psychosis Crawler
- Putrefax
- Quilled Slagwurm
- Rackling
- Rathi Assassin
- Rathi Fiend
- Rathi Intimidator
- Ravenous Skirge
- Razor Swine
- Reaper of Sheoldred
- Rot Wolf
- Rotted Hystrix
- Rusted Slasher
- Sanguine Guard
- Sarcomite Myr
- Scourge Servant
- Selenia, Dark Angel
- Sensor Splicer
- Septic Rats
- Serum Raker
- Shattered Angel
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Shivan Zombie
- Shriek Raptor
- Skinrender
- Skirge Familiar
- Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
- Skittering Horror
- Skittering Skirge
- Slag Fiend
- Slash Panther
- Sleeper Agent
- Slinking Skirge
- Soul of New Phyrexia
- Spellskite
- Spinebiter
- Spined Thopter
- Spineless Thug
- Spire Monitor
- Spiteful Bully
- Stronghold Assassin
- Suture Priest
- Tangle Angler
- Tangle Hulk
- Tel-Jilad Fallen
- Tethered Skirge
- Thrummingbird
- Thundering Tanadon
- Tine Shrike
- Tormentor Exarch
- Toxic Nim
- Trespassing Souleater
- Tsabo Tavoc
- Tsabo's Assassin
- Unworthy Dead
- Urabrask the Hidden
- Vault Skirge
- Vebulid
- Vector Asp
- Vedalken Anatomist
- Viral Drake
- Viridian Betrayers
- Viridian Corrupter
- Viridian Emissary
- Viseling
- Vital Splicer
- Volrath the Fallen
- Volrath, the Shapestealer
- Volrath's Shapeshifter
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
- Western Paladin
- Whispering Specter
- Wing Splicer
- Wurmcoil Engine
- Xantcha, Sleeper Agent
- Yawgmoth Demon
- Blade Splicer
- Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer
- Chancellor of the Forge
- Ich-Tekik, Salvage Splicer
- Master Splicer
- Maul Splicer
- Myr Sire
- Nested Ghoul
- Phyrexian Swarmlord
- Phyrexian Triniform
- Sensor Splicer
- Vital Splicer
- Wing Splicer
- Wurmcoil Engine
- Batterbone
- Batterskull
- Bonehoard
- Conversion Chamber
- Flayer Husk
- Lashwrithe
- Mortarpod
- Necropouncer
- Nettlecyst
- Phyrexian Processor
- Phyrexian Totem
- Scytheclaw
- Shrine of Loyal Legions
- Sickleslicer
- Skinwing
- Strandwalker
- Trigon of Infestation
- Lurking Evil
- Lurking Skirge
- Parasitic Implant
- Carrion Call
- Grip of Phyresis
- Ezuri's Predation
- Phyrexian Rebirth
- Splicer's Skill
- Inkmoth Nexus
July 4, 2021 3:03 a.m. Edited.
Oh, and for additional reference, here is the WotC announcement of the Phyrexian Errata: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/oracle-changes-2021-06-18
July 4, 2021 3:10 a.m.
Mortlocke Thanks. Adventures in the Forgotten Realms is also adding multiple new creature types. This should get updated in the near future.
July 4, 2021 3:17 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #32
Mortlocke: erratas generally go untouched on this site because of how long they they take to do and that there's better things for me to spend my time on. If you want to make user submissions to do so I'll happily accept them.
July 5, 2021 9:23 p.m.
It wasn't my intention to suggest an errata for the aforementioned list of cards - I just wanted to suggest the new hub. But, I'd be more than happy to do some user submissions to update the Phyrexian tribe. Please show me the directions on how to accomplish that task.
July 6, 2021 12:50 a.m. Edited.
Femme_Fatale says... #34
Mortlocke: the hubs for subtypes and keywords are automatically updated based on the subtypes and keywords in your deck. And in order for you to make card submissions you have to be an upgraded user, and then go to either the set page that card is a printing in or the card page for that card and click the green "Fix card" button.
July 6, 2021 8:21 p.m.
lucasbananas says... #35
Equipment decks are getting pretty popular, especially in EDH where there has been a bunch of Boros support lately.
July 7, 2021 9:40 a.m.
lucasbananas Equip should be a selectable option. Let me know if you don't see it.
July 8, 2021 8:31 p.m.
A few categories that pops to mind are Cantrips, Big Mana, Landfall, Spell Copy.
July 10, 2021 5:21 a.m.
Fjorynn Cantrips seems too broad, and there aren't many strategies that actually rely on the cantrip aspect itself. It's more of a card category.
Do you have a distinction between Big Mana and Ramp?
Landfall should be selectable in the ability list, please let me know if it's not.
Spell Copy is listed for review right now, so it might make it in.
July 10, 2021 4:20 p.m.
BlazinJsin says... #39
Has anybody mentioned Dice Rolling and Dungeon as hubs yet? If not then I'm throwing those in the ring.
July 31, 2021 1:43 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #40
Standard specific hubs are never that great as they have to be constantly maintained.
August 2, 2021 10:05 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #41
BlazinJsin: I will say that dungeons are automatically in as Venture into the Dungeon is a keyword, forgot about that one. Dice Rolling I'm kind of unsure about right now.
August 2, 2021 10:42 p.m.
BlazinJsin says... #42
Dungeon does not show up as an option in the check boxes or in the drop menu, I just double checked on my dungeon crawler deck. I know several people that made dice rolling decks just like I have a coin flip deck.
August 2, 2021 11:17 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #43
BlazinJsin: Appears there seems to have been a bug with the automatic hub adding of keywords. I've manually added them at the moment.
August 3, 2021 12:11 a.m.
Not sure if this is the best place to post this. But can we get separate forums for edh and Cedh?
August 5, 2021 6:51 a.m.
not the place to post that. post that to a new thread if you have that suggestion
August 5, 2021 7:03 a.m.
ghostfire86 says... #46
Repercussion, Deflecting Palm, Pariah should have a hub of their own. Manipulating the damage to punish players for damage being dealt to your creature or someone else’s has been the idea basis that at this point pops up across multiple sets, but Wizards has been slow to giving us one or more keywords for these. Keep in mind that before we called it Hexproof, many of us referred to it as troll shroud.
August 9, 2021 8:08 a.m.
ghostfire86 Those largely fall under the Aikido hub, which focuses on turning the opponent's strength or aggression against them, in parallel with the martial art of the same name.
There have been several comments recently that make me think that the Aikido hub could be revisited for clarity of concept, though.
August 9, 2021 1:04 p.m.
TheVectornaut says... #48
I have built multiple decks that fall under the damage redirection archetype over the years and never knew that aikido was the name of the hub for it (until finding out in this thread). It makes sense when you think about it (and assuming you even know what real aikido is), but the fact that you have to think about it at all suggests it might not be the best name. How popular is the term in the broader Magic community? I’ve heard terminology like ramp, death and taxes, and pillowfort used by players hundreds or even thousands of times but have never once encountered anyone anywhere who has described their deck using the aikido label unless referring to the hub here.
August 10, 2021 2:58 a.m.
ghostfire86 says... #49
Same. First time I’m hearing this term used and I’ve been playing since 95
August 10, 2021 10:11 a.m.
If they don't overlap perfectly we could just create another one. Folks could still select both. Otherwise maybe a better name
Femme_Fatale says... #1
legendofa: Oh no, coinflip will be A LOT more popular, I guarantee it. MH2 has prophesied it. And as for the kamigawa mechanic, players can't choose a mechanic that isn't in their deck so it should be fine. Counters and counterspell would be an example of this.
May 24, 2021 12:27 a.m.