One thing I think should be done.
TappedOut forum
Posted on Dec. 2, 2013, 9:07 a.m. by gufymike
There are too many 'Advertise your deck' threads in the deck help forum. They aren't exactly asking for help as much as trying to push them on us to view. I don't disagree there should be a thread on this topic, but I don't think we need 2+ simultaneously going on. We do have the deck cycle and the front page and hubs that do this already, but the problem with them is the number of users and your deck gets lost in the mix rather quickly and a separate forum would be similar. We don't have sticky threads to keep one above the rest easy to find. What can be done about this? yeahgo is it possible to get your input on this? I don't have a working or workable solution given the current state of limitations, but wondering if we could come up with one.
Sorry for massively posting I'm just trying to get my head around these changes.
First of all thank you to Epochalyptik and yeaGO! for actually listening and contributing. This has been extremely helpful and I think talking like this is what really demonstrates how much you guys care about the community.
So our current proposed fixes are:
- Stop people from posting their deck a certain number of times in a set period.
- Introduce a comment4comment system
These both sound like fantastic fixes. However, I think from Epochs point of view it would be good if there was a blanket ban on the number of threads a user could post in a time frame (say only one thread every 5 or 10 minutes). This would stop those spam bots. You know - those random ones that post about sport things.
I would also really, strongly suggest that a system was implemented whereby you could not post a link (either to a deck or outside url) in the deck help forum. This would stop people from making the threads that irritate me, Behgz, Demarge and gufymike, among others. If you want to compare you deck to another persons and recommend they check out your version, that's fine - but it can be done on the actual deck itself and not in a thread.
As for the 'tumbling machine' (as I think it should be named) - it really sounds wicked but I think some thought needs to go into how it can be made fair.
December 3, 2013 12:51 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #3
I like ChiefBell's suggestion on the limiting the replies on the deck-help forum. In this case I would think that when you post your deck-help thread, all comments must go to the deck itself. But allow upgraded users to post on the threads so that they can explain how to make the thread itself better, like when new users don't know how to link their decks or cards we can post just exactly how to do that. We should also allow the thread creator to post on their own thread as well. This would effectively remove advertise this deck threads but doesn't limit the functionality of the deck-help forum as we are generally commenting on the deck anyways. As a bonus, this also prevents people posting things like "well, just try play-testing against other decks and see which cards work for your meta" kind of responses. Which irritate me.
I also think that the signature is a wonderful idea, but since we can't have one I have another proposition.
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We should have a sort of little advertisement where we can choose which deck to have there. I think upgraded users should then have the option for two.
The "Tumbling Machine" is a wonderful idea, but since we need it to be organized I will post my ideas here. I think decks should automatically get put into the machine even when we are not around. I know for many of us we just don't have the time to go on and deck-cycle or feature queue before the allotted time the system restarts. I live on the west coast of Canada so I may be the only one worried about this though. Basically we should select which deck to go in the machine before-hand so that it still can get views even when we are not around, maybe put this in the settings menu.
Every time we go to a new page, the Machine would churn up a new deck for us, and would be in the top right like this:
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This way it can easily be spotted when we go to a new page and isn't in our face and annoying.
This is just a maybe, but I think that we should have an option for which formats we want to see. Obviously someone else did state that something like this would make the other formats invisible, and I agree, but here is the solution. When we go to a new page and the Machine churns a new deck up, it should be defaulted to a random deck from any format. Then when we click to see another format, it churns a deck from the selected format. Now all formats can be seen, but we can also easily choose which format we like to see.
As for the limit of the decks, I think that once someone clicks on the churned up deck it should be removed from the Machine temporarily. This way all decks are given equal coverage and an equal chance. The Machine would fill up every day, for the moment until we can figure out how long it really should be, as I'm not too sure how fast the Machine would deplete. I think when we begin monitoring how full it is (... upgraded users should see the percentage full?) we can determine a good medium for how often the Machine would refresh itself.
I hope these are good ideas, and should at least pave the way for them.
December 3, 2013 3:26 p.m.
We just need to make sure that the machine shows the same deck to multiple people - if by some chance the site decides that your deck appears on the screen of the guy that's been palying for 2 weeks then that's less fair than the decks that appear on an experienced user's screen. Maybe the machine should show a selection of the current users a single deck - so it appears to a cross section of people - maybe your deck gets shown 5 or 10 times. This gives it a bit more of a chance for it to appear to both newbies and experienced members alike.
Also if you see this thread - http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/announcement.php?f=7&announcementid=128
It demonstrates the kind of rules and ettiquette that is necessary in a system that expects users to both give and take criticism. Note the emphasis on having to critique others, giving informative titles and NOT HAVING THREADS BUMPED ENDLESSLY.
December 3, 2013 3:40 p.m.
Quick question can someone link an example annoying thread?
December 3, 2013 3:40 p.m.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-forum/deck-help/advertise-your-deck-1/
This is an advertising one.
December 3, 2013 3:42 p.m.
Another is http://tappedout.net/mtg-forum/deck-help/best-control-deck-on-the-market/ does nothing to ask for help.
December 3, 2013 3:43 p.m.
People are basically using the deck help forum not for help but for exposure. That's our beef.
December 3, 2013 3:44 p.m.
Ahh, gotcha.
Well how about a bold disclaimer for starts?
December 3, 2013 3:48 p.m.
That said, what constitutes and invalid posting? Does this?
December 3, 2013 3:50 p.m.
Not really, asking for 'advice from experienced players' means, 'hey, I need advice to make this deck better' which I think deck help is about.
Not framing your post to ask for help/advice/ideas is an issue.
December 3, 2013 3:53 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #12
How about a minimum character limit then? Like you have to have at least 50 characters in order to post a thread or topic.
December 3, 2013 3:55 p.m.
In the thread I've posted from Ultimate Guitar they have very specific rules about what is allowed in the title and what is allowed in the body of text. That should be enforced somehow.
I still just think banning replies to actual threads would be one solution - stop advertising.
Enforcing a requirement for a title would be another way of doing things.
December 3, 2013 3:56 p.m.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The above is an example of why a character limit shouldn't be included. Words have the same issue.
Disclaimers, do nothing, they require people to read, which is already another whole issue on misplaced posts, like using Q&A to poll the users, instead of a rules question.
I'm with the banning of replies.
December 3, 2013 3:59 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #15
The banning of replies seems to be in consensus, though I think the original creator of the thread should still be able to post replies to their threads so that if they make a mistake they can fix it, or they can post what updates they just recently did or what they still need help with.
However the banning of replies does nothing for threads that are just posted without a description explaining what they need help with. Or those that are just trying to use it as an advertisement board.
Maybe the upgraded users too? It gives an incentive to upgrade and it means us upgraded users could give pointers as to what should have been done better for the thread. Like how to link a card or a deck or like what should be properly written down in the deck description.
ChiefBell I do agree that just having the deck shown to one person doesn't guarantee some help. Maybe then the deck could be clicked on 2 or 3 times in order for it to be temporarily removed? The deck has to be clicked on though, not just viewed, as there will be many users who won't bother with the Machine all the time.
December 3, 2013 4:12 p.m.
It stops mass advertising but not individual advertising. We could just say - all titles need to be [deck name] - [format] ie - Teneb, Combo Harvester - EDH, or they are automatically deleted. Then there's complete conformity for everyone.
December 3, 2013 4:17 p.m.
I think something that we're forgetting is what the Deck Help forum is all about. The Deck Help forum is about inexperienced players posting their decks to get help. Cobthecobbler's "Advertise Your Deck" post was good for the forum because it got people comments on their decks. Others don't do that. So what do we do. What if we deleted the Deck Help forum and had, say, 20 decks a day in a Deck Help Forum-like place, and you could put your deck in a queue to be featured there.
December 6, 2013 4:01 p.m.
I think this is what "Deck Help" is for and if all the people that posted in those threads made their own thread it would be much worse.
I can see how this could get out of hand. I think the ideal would be one thread like this per format running at a time.
December 6, 2013 4:08 p.m.
You shouldn't be allowed to advertise your deck at all. That's what feature tokens and deckcycling are for.
ChiefBell says... #1
I dont understand whether this system is randomised or not. And if thw owner of the deck has to pick a comment then thats means that scrubs will be never he picked and they'll never be able to use the feature.
December 3, 2013 12:37 p.m.