Question on Play Test - Shuffling
TappedOut forum
Posted on Aug. 25, 2010, 2:13 p.m. by Sharpe67mtg
I've been using the Play Test page a lot recently and it seems to give me fairly good, random distributions of cards most of the time. It's better than my real life shuffling, usually. You can still get a bad draw but it seems less frequent (for me) than in real life.
Do you guys get similiar results? Does anyone know how much manual shuffling the Play Test algorythm is equivalent to?
How much and what kind of real life shuffling do you guys use? I try to do a spread shuffle and at least a dozen or so interlaces (using sleeves, of course) between games, but that doesn't seem to produce results as smooth as the play tester.
Technically, if you use the "classic" shuffle- i.e., part the deck in the middle and flip the cards together as with a deck of playing cards- 3 times, you have a naturally random distribution.
This breaks down if 1) You are unable to use this method consistently, 2) You don't use sleeves and have expensive cards, or 3) You enjoy prime numbers.
August 26, 2010 1 a.m.
nammertime says... #4
I do the prime-number shuffling, plus classic shuffling if I feel like I've had some bad hands in the last few games, lol.
The playtest shuffler works fine, I just click on it a few times to 'simulate' the 'classic' shuffle. It does act up once in a while, netting you multiples all at once, or drawing you six lands in one shot... but I've had that happen just as much with real-life shuffling. Random distributions are random, not even.
August 26, 2010 12:41 p.m.
It would be funny to come up with a system where mana clumps form (as they do in real life).
August 26, 2010 1:43 p.m.
nammertime says... #6
You'd have to come up with a 'magic gunk' algorithm, where cards that we hold in our hands get dirtier with that residue that accumulates on all cards/plastics over time. Since lands don't get handled as much, I assume normal cards just clump together, leaving lands to clump together too.
That's my theory, anyway.
August 26, 2010 1:49 p.m.
Sharpe67mtg says... #7
Actually, one old timer said it was the opposite: in long games, you hold lands in your hand, and they get all sweaty, which causes the dreaded land clumping. The cards that hit the table tend to be OK, unless the table is dirty, but using a mat fixes that.
August 26, 2010 2:46 p.m.
nammertime says... #8
Actually, putting the arguments together, clumping will happen whether you're playing a deck with responses (cards in hand) or long games with leftovers (lands in hand).
YES we figured it out lol.
August 26, 2010 6:05 p.m.
Sharpe67mtg says... #9
The issue, when you come down to it, is sweat and dirt. So YeaGO! just needs to figure out how to simulate that and we are good go :).
August 26, 2010 6:25 p.m.
a bunch of minimum-wage guys in the basement with proxies. that's how. :P
August 26, 2010 10:47 p.m.
yes - minimum wage, but the basement is in india, and the minimum wage is divided between all of them equally.
August 27, 2010 4:05 p.m.
im nearly always clumped when i play test... :( frustrating
September 4, 2010 9:13 p.m.
how do you put cards on the bottom of the library?iv tried dragging and dropping but that just puts it on top. and shuffling doesnt shuffle them back into the deck
September 22, 2010 5:13 p.m.
nammertime says... #16
You can't put them on the bottom to my knowledge.
September 23, 2010 2:08 a.m.
DeckBuilder345 says... #17
You can put them on the bottom. Move them to the exile area and then down from the exile area to the deck and it will be put on the bottom of the deck.
September 24, 2010 11:53 p.m.
@sharpe
This is the line of code where the shuffling occurs:
library.insert(mtg.cards.sortBy(Math.random).join(''));It's just doing 1 random sort. In version 2 of the playtester, I'll be sorting it 3 times.
September 29, 2010 10:36 p.m.
A bug someone noticed today was placing a card onto the library places it on the library face up.
Or is that a feature?
September 29, 2010 10:42 p.m.
I've been looking to enter Modern tournaments recently and tried to make a UR deck centered around flashback but I would need some help to turn it competitive.
Here's the deck : Merging Past and Present
I'm currently thinking about pumping the deck up from 60 cards so I don't deck myself and/or to add some disruptive elements such as counterspells or Boomerang-like cards.
Vorxis says... #2
I feel that the playtester is a little eccentric, and i'm pretty sure i'm not alone in feeling this way. Often, i'll draw three of the same card one after the other, even though i've "shuffled" the deck (for example, after sacrificing fetchlands). I've drawn 6 lands in a row at least three times, playtesting a deck that only contains 10 lands. There are many oddities about it, but in fairness, it's the best one i've seen on the interweb, so I can't really complain.
Regarding the real life shuffling, I usually deal my cards into 7 stacks to ensure complete randomness. I heard somebody say that it was the best way to shuffle, something to do with prime numbers, but I got bored.
August 25, 2010 7:57 p.m.