Topdeck Hub?
TappedOut forum
Posted on Aug. 9, 2022, 6:43 a.m. by gaiden.17
Surprised there is no topdeck hub - its a significant EDH theme.
Of course,
Topdeck is an EDH theme. It involves library manipulation to take advantage of such mechanics as miracles as you say but a host of other interactions including manifest, damage (e.g. twilight prophet), ramp (e.g. kinship), and clash (this is not an exhaustive list). Through commanders like Aminatou where you can replace the topdeck or the Reality Chip/Elsha Norn that can cast through the topdeck, you get some powerful interactions. Counterbalance is probably control's quintessential example. Please feel free to repost this in the other thread you mentioned.
-Gaiden
August 12, 2022 1:16 a.m.
gaiden.17 Thanks for the examples; this helps a lot. A couple of follow-up questions: Do these abilities regularly appear in the same deck, or would it be unusual to see clash, miracles, and manifest, for example, together?
I try to avoid making hubs that are too broad or inclusive, and I haven't seen a deck in EDH or anywhere else that uses all of these mechanics together. This isn't to say it doesn't happen, and I freely admit that it could be my own relative lack of exposure. That's why I'm asking questions, to get a handle on how this hub would be used.
I'm looking to nail down a definition with a couple of examples. Would you be able to post a couple of decks that you think meet the requirements here? If they're from different users, that's even better, and will help it get on the short list.
August 12, 2022 1:33 a.m.
I think it depends on the commander (both its abilities and color identity) as well as the build. Take Aminatou, for example. Aminatou can be built more around her +1 (topdeck) or her -2 (flicker). A more topdeck theme benefits tremendously from something like captivating glance (clash) that can synergize with her -2. Whereas a flicker build derives greater benefit from manifest because you can flicker the Cloudform and keep manifesting to build up your board (and then flicker any manifested permanent or bounce nonpermanents back to your hand). (Of course topdeck control improves your manifests but its the flicker that makes the engine run). But then you might have another build that uses cards like Phyrexian dreadnaught where the topdeck component of manifesting is critical because you don't intend to ever hard cast your creatures. Color identity is important to. The overwhelming traditional topdeck manipulation is in blue but the way to take advantage of it entirely depends on color identity. Simic is going to land ramp and cheat creatures into play. Dimir is going to focus on draining (with the aforementioned Twilight Prophet the prime example). Temur is going to deal direct damage and focus on creature damage. With that said, there are some creative ways to manipulate what is on top of the library in each color, not just blue. Red exiles off the top, for example, which can let you filter through until you get what you need. Never the less, I can't promise that edhrec will show the precise combination of cards or abilities I am talking about. I do think you'll see captivating glance (clash), twilight prophet, temporal mastery (miracle), and cloudform (manifest) together because those are all Aminatou staples. But will you see Pain Seer, Arbiter of the Ideal, and Raider's Karve in the same deck with other topdeck manipulation? I'm not so sure. But that's not to discredit topdecking; both trios' identity are topdecking whether they are recognized as such.
August 14, 2022 6:42 a.m.
Here are a couple of decks I found just via a google search of topdeck and edh:
Golos: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/topdeck-tribal/
Elsha: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-08-20-topdeck/
Momir: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/topdeck-edh/
If I did some more digging, I'm sure tlI could find some tribal builds out there using, for example, the Scarab God (zombies) or Yuriko (ninjas), as well. Heck, maybe even Runo Stromkirk (sea monsters).
August 14, 2022 6:50 a.m.
Thanks for the decks. I'll get this on the list, check for an update on the thread I linked above later this week.
legendofa says... #2
gaiden.17 What kind of effects are you looking at for a topdeck hub? I assume you're asking for something broader than Miracles. Could you please give some examples?
Also, there's an active thread for new hub discussion at https://tappedout.net/mtg-forum/tappedout/new-hubs-to-be-added/
August 9, 2022 12:53 p.m.