where be the points?
TappedOut forum
Posted on Nov. 11, 2015, 6:52 p.m. by r_type_one
aaand are they coming back?
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #3
Ohthenoises temporarily took control of the site.
But seriously, I seem to be fine, but ChiefBell, TheHroth, Epochalyptik, and FancyTuesday are not. Anyone see a pattern?
November 11, 2015 7:44 p.m.
r_type_one says... #4
the points seem to have just been reset, not hidden. arbitrary as they may be, i certainly enjoy racking them up.
November 11, 2015 7:45 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #6
Frickin Upheaval. This is why I only play EDH. On the bright side, I'm about 300,000 points closer to #1 than I was before.
November 11, 2015 7:53 p.m. Edited.
Lol FancyTuesday... I guess there is that bright side :p
November 11, 2015 7:57 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #8
The real answer is you lot have slacked on your goat sacrifice quota. Did you think that would not have consequences? Get on it.
November 11, 2015 8:04 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #10
Meh decay of points or a reset is good. I allows newer users to feel like they have a better chance of getting recognized for their contributions. I don't approve of what this will do in the short term though as it may lead to an increase in spamming for points. A decay system would be more consistent but harder to implement.
November 11, 2015 8:08 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #11
You don't think people would spam posts just to grind points now that the difference between TO Rank 50,000+ and 50 is 40 points, do you?
November 11, 2015 8:14 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #12
Cause that would be downright contemptible.
November 11, 2015 8:15 p.m. Edited.
I feel like a reset like this would cause more spam, and thus is unhealthy...but what do I know.
November 11, 2015 8:17 p.m.
gnarlicide says... #14
Yeah, I was guilty of spamming the shit out of some posts. But it made fluffy's wall to many times for me to quit. I give the people what they want!
November 11, 2015 8:34 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #16
I hope they're restored. I had finally made top 100 a couple of days ago and it turns out that you can change your title when you get there, but you have to be an upgraded user. I was going to upgrade tonight and then this happens. Not sure I want to put the work in to get that again, or throw my money at a site where this happens. Especially not when those $5 could be 1/12 of a Snapcaster Mage for my deck.
November 11, 2015 9:01 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #17
My point's got nuked from near 110k to 500 or so and I'm all like
Everyone who's salty about it is like 
Remember people: 
November 11, 2015 9:02 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #18
But changing my title.... It's basically a rite of passage into the 'cool people' on the site that everyone aspires to be. And it was mine, until point wipe.
November 11, 2015 9:05 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #19
Well maybe yeaGO could make the title change possible for top 100 users that are not upgraded? Please Go?
November 11, 2015 9:08 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #20
And that matters because?
I'm not trying to be mean but this is a deck building website, not facebook.
What I have been trying to remind people for near 3 years now is that the points don't matter because there's no E-Peen here. More points and more rank yields absolutely nothing.
I've been one of the most active users on this site for 3 years, that's how you get recognized and join the "cool kids", not by a silly title change.
Help people, get help, join healthy discussions. Don't CARE about the points and rank and I guarantee that you will generate it faster that way because if you focus on HELPING people then better things happen in return.
November 11, 2015 9:12 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #21
It's just a little perk that some users like to have, some kind of recognition that they actually participated a significant amount on the site. I personally don't really care (shittiest title on the site here XD) and it's in no way a big priority, but some people might like it, so there's no reason to take it off or only make it inaccessible to certain users (especially those who can't make those who can't make their usernames fancy and all).
November 11, 2015 9:17 p.m. Edited.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #22
But does that matter now that I'm no longer top 100? Because a lot of people got wiped, top 100 isn't super hard so I can get there pretty quickly if I spend some time helping decks being deckcycled, and I don't mind upgrading if I can get back to top 100 because I want a cool username too. I'm just a little annoyed that the stats got wiped. Not what I needed.
I help a lot of decks. All the time. Every day. I try not to spam, and I genuinely like seeing new, interesting decks and even the occasional train wreck. Having a unique title does matter. It establishes who you are when someone sees your name for the fist time, increasing your ethos. People are more inclined to look at your decks and comment or upvote them. Up until I learned that top 100 meant something, rank was of no concern to me. I thought title changing was something you got for being at the supporter level, not most active. It wasn't until recently that I learned it was a privilege designed to give back to the people who have given the most.
November 11, 2015 9:19 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #24
Yeah I'm not very good at moving on. Gonna judge me for it?
November 11, 2015 9:20 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #25
It's disingenuous to write off TappedOut as simply being about deck building. That is the primary focus, but as with any website with any social interaction a community forms. The "Just chillin" threads are hardly about deck building, they're in service to the friendships users have built here. Some of the forums have nothing to do with the game that brought us all here. Our user pages, our fancy names, our user titles, half of our most popular threads, none of it has anything to do with Magic but we have it all the same.
More points and more rank does yield something: the ability to change one's title. It's a small thing, but it is a thing; a thank you for all the good you've done for the site and the community. Activity is content and points encourage users to provide. Not everyone cares, some people do. I went out of my way to clean up broken Gatherer links to help get over 100 so I could change my title. Now that my title's changed it's easy to say I don't care, but I can't dismiss the effectiveness of the system.
EDIT: Also, it is a bug and yeaGO is looking into it (see my Wall). No idea if he'll be able to fix it but this wasn't a planned reset, there are many users that weren't affected.
November 11, 2015 9:31 p.m. Edited.
Femme_Fatale says... #26
FancyTuesday, you are forgetting that this site's namesake behaviour is to not care about those points. Or at least, it was until this site got more popular.
They are just a little something extra, a thing to go "Oh hey, that's neat" and have mini celebrations over. They could just as simply as be not there and this site wouldn't change at all.
November 11, 2015 9:47 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #27
My point is that the site is many things to many people. It has this feature, and it matters to some people, not least of all because it is linked to a (small) benefit, ego notwithstanding.
You could remove points entirely and the functionality would be largely unchanged, but not completely. There are users that do things for points and for rank to get to that top 100. As mentioned above there is a feature on the site that's tied to points/rank. That you and some others do not care about points or rank does not change the demonstrable fact that others do care, and that it in some small way encourages activity. Even if it's something silly like gunning for the number 2 spot.
November 11, 2015 10:02 p.m. Edited.
filledelanuit says... #28
My impressions was that the database exploded yesterday and yeago had to get everything back running. Things may have been lost. Or it could be a conspiracy to screw over Femme from becoming 1st.
November 11, 2015 10:32 p.m.
ABadMagicPlayer100 says... #29
Mission: get to rank 100 and officially change my title before this is resolved...
:P
November 11, 2015 10:33 p.m.
I was number one in the site for so long and only ever cared when I found out I got there and dethroned green. So long ago. Hilarious that people care so much, but to each thier own.
November 11, 2015 10:38 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #31
To put it into perspective: I had something like 300,200 points when it got reset. I don't care. At all.
Just make meaningful contributions to the community and forget that points and upvotes even exist.
November 11, 2015 10:43 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #32
Interesting thing: If chief, noises and epoch all lost their rank, I should be second. Clearly, their position is still in the system somehow and we have a weird 2 tiered point system going on, where I wasn't invited to the second tier. As per meme image: Everyone's moving on, and I'm still here.
November 11, 2015 10:47 p.m.
r_type_one says... #33
i don't think points determine rank. i could be wrong. my t/o rank hasn't been affected. just the points reset.
November 11, 2015 10:53 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #34
Easy for you to say as an upgraded, well-established, and recognized user. As much as I hate to admit it, tappout isn't extremely accepting to new users, especially not in the threads and discussions. As a new user trying to get help and establish myself, it's not easy. Epoch, you're a self-trained psychologist. You're familiar with the idea of ethos. Having a custom title and lots of points increases ethos, as does having a colorful username. Everyone knows who you are so for you it doesn't make any difference how many points you have, but in the last 8 months I've seen how the community changes as you become recognized as someone who's active on the site. Admittedly, when I first entered I was a 2 month casual-only player, so I hand no knowledge of the game which hindered me at first, but I was still repeatedly rejected at first. Being able to bring up ideas without being shot down is a wonderful feeling. I finally made it to the level where I felt I was finally part of the community, not still trying to elbow my way in. It's more symbolic to me than anything. Call me sensitive, shallow, or whatever, but try creating an alt account for a month and see how it goes. Don't use primers with coding on decks, upgrades, or anything fancy. It's a tough when you're anything except on top of the world of tappedout.
November 11, 2015 11:07 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #35
Points determine rank. And I did think it strange that even though several of the higher ranked users got knocked out those that remained didn't move up. The system may be well and truly borked.
To give another perspective, imagine you just made it into the top 100 and planned on changing your title, and now you can't. Yes I know it's a tiny thing, but it mattered enough for most of us to change it. It's a harmless little feature to incentivize activity, it's not accidental that the system was implemented or that similar systems exist in other places, even displayed post counts on forums and the like. Some people just like having that sort of validation for their efforts. Shall we stop displaying good card suggestions and fixed card entries as well? After all, it's just a number when it's the effort behind it that counts, right? And if it's all the same to you, why bother telling others to whom it does matter it's pointless? (hah, pointless)
I'm mostly playing devils advocate here. I made the top 100, I changed my title, so my card's stamped and now I'm just reclining in my chair making finger guns. But I remember not long ago when I did care, when I went out of my way to clean up links and make good posts, and that got me in the habit of caring about the site. That's right, you can all thank points for the plague that is my posting.
November 11, 2015 11:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #36
The community's demeanor toward any given individual is generally based on that individual's ability to make meaningful contributions. If all you're posting is nonsense or off-the-mark advice, you're probably in for a long road to acceptance. But if you're in the habit of offering intelligible reasons for your choices and advice (even if the advice itself isn't great), then you're more likely to get responses.
I don't deny that upgraded users and more active users have a higher degree of visibility in the community. But that's not something that rank affects, to be honest. The only thing rank actually did for anyone was allow selective title customization, which was only relevant if you went to a user page.
November 11, 2015 11:21 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #38
I want to be like him! I want to know how to wrap my scarf around my neck with one little toss and be all cool like!
November 12, 2015 12:16 a.m.
Eh. This actually does irritate me a little because I used this site a lot more than Facebook, and I used it for Facebook-esque purposes. So you know, the points sort of did mean something, and not because I was posting shit everywhere, but because I spent real quality time and effort trying to post meaningful content on the site. I totally understand that to some they're a motivator to spam. But for others they were a motivator to really contribute a great deal. Now that I've lost my points I feel a bit like I've just wasted my time to some extent, because you rarely get a thank for doing things such as spending 3 months writing a primer about an entire format with 6 others.
November 12, 2015 2:57 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #40
I get ChiefBell's point. I generally do my best to contribute meaningfully on the site -- usually by offering frequent and useful Standard deck advice. And since I became more active on the site about 18 months ago, my rank began to reflect my growing involvement in the community. While the number is relatively vapid and meaningless (I'm ranked 45th on the site), it is a nice way for the site to offer a tacit "thank-you" in return for positive contributions. Yes, it most certainly motivated some users to spam, as several infamous episodes from the annals of T/O history can attest. I still think it was a positive motivator for most users. And it is nice to have a higher rank sometimes because, as has been mentioned, it makes it easier to advertise one's decks.
Also, I didn't seem to lose many points at all (if indeed I lost any). I'm right below 26,000.
November 12, 2015 3:57 a.m.
It's weird. None of my points have been reset nor has my rank changed. I believe the points don't necessarily matter as long as you help people who don't know how to make decks well or even how to play. I know some people that don't really do anything but post nonsense and yet they are in the top 100. I guess that's just life. Sometimes the hardest workers get knocked down, but that is only so you can pick yourself up again. Or some other cliche crap like that.
November 12, 2015 4:03 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #42
Doh! It happened to me, too.
I now have 10 points and went from rank 45 to over 900.
:(
November 12, 2015 12:40 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #43
Well, it seems to be the main consensus that points don't matter. So why don't we remove them? Screw points, rank and upvotes, this is a deckbuilding page! Let's remove custom titles too, or give everybody the option to change it. Let's also remove the option to customize usernames and user page design. Ego has no place here, we are not facebook! /sarcasm
I challenge you to upvote all my decks (even the unfinished ones and the crappy failed experiments I forgot to delete) if you really think that points don't matter. Otherwise, stop acting as if you don't care.
In fact, I think that anyone anyone who remembers even closely how many points they lost, or noticed it without reading about the issue here or on yeago's profile does care about points to some degree, no matter what they say.
However, no matter if one does care or not, it is bad form to tell others what to care about.
November 12, 2015 1:06 p.m. Edited.
JakeHarlow says... #44
Honestly, I'd be fine with the removal of the ranking and points system. I think the only thing that would be mechanically affected is the Top 100 custom user rank title.
November 12, 2015 1:52 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #45
I did whatever the thing was and I'm rank 357 instead of 34
Lol whoops
November 12, 2015 1:53 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #46
I actually wouldn't mind about doing away with points and rank either. The main reason I ever cared about them at all is because they are there. If they weren't, then I wouldn't. That's not a bad reason, people climbed mountains just because they were there.
Upvotes, that's a bit different. Or, it would be if they really reflected on the quality of the deck and not on other attributes as the funniness of it's name or the timing and frequency of deckcycles. At the current state of T/O's voting patterns I wouldn't mind doing away with those either.
Those suggestions were sarcastic, but not 100% ironic. The suggestions to remove customization options were 100% irony.
November 12, 2015 2:08 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #47
I get what you're saying, Triforce-Finder. I kinda cared about the points system simply because it existed (see my earlier post for more on that). I actually thought that the deck ranking system via upvotes was kind of useful since it allowed the popular decks to gain more visibility in the community. I've found that to be helpful on several occasions. It was even a fun challenge to try and get a deck to #1 on the site (I've done it once!).
I'd be fine with keeping the deck voting system intact while eschewing the user ranking system. Honestly, none of these things actually matter, so I'll be fine whichever way these things end up going.
November 12, 2015 2:15 p.m.
FancyTuesday says... #48
I wouldn't do away with the ranking system, if it were working.
To me it's very simple: it's something that can be completely ignored by those it doesn't matter to and embraced by those it does. This thread demonstrates that there are some who've contributed real content to this site, myself included, for the validation of rank and the privilege of changing our title. It's an incentive, and with the exception of only the most banal spam all activity is content on a website. It's a user logging in, looking at ads (if we're good), throwing out posts for others to react to. A community lives and dies by its minutiae, and these systems are universally healthful to online communities whether it personally appeals to us or not.
Why ask for upvotes with a button in a deck description? Why deckcycle if we aren't explicitly looking for deck help? Upvotes are just as meaningless if not moreso because of the voting tendencies of users, they do not promote activity the way rank does beyond helping others hoping they'll upvote your decks in return. I don't see why we have to act like we're above that sort of thing, shallow as it is, when we clearly are not.
I don't play games for achievements or trophies. I know people that do. They certainly play the game longer and enjoy themselves doing it. It doesn't affect me in any way, they get more enjoyment out of something because of it, good system. I may not personally care about my points/rank anymore, but that I did once is what conditioned me to fix broken Gatherer links when I see them. I may not have stuck to the site the way I did without that investment, I may not have even donated my five bucks.
November 12, 2015 2:36 p.m.
Triforce-Finder says... #49
Aw, Best I got was #3 site ranking. Belated congratulations on on your top deck though.
You're right, visibility is an important aspect of deck votes. I'm not sure if I would cycle my decks as often as I do if search results couldn't be sorted by score.
November 12, 2015 2:37 p.m.
Achievements and trophies? yeaGO - that could be cool
Gidgetimer says... #2
They probably got hidden because encouraging participation for arbitrary internet points is not something that leads to a high quality of discourse. There are still rankings so I assume that points still exist, they are probably just hidden to try to encourage a higher level of interaction than spamming for activity. Then again I have no knowledge of the where and why fors of administration I am but a lowly observer.
November 11, 2015 7:36 p.m.