about Allies...
Asked by WiseHeart65 14 years ago
ok so an ally like Oran-Rief Survivalist , has to be on the battlefield to get his counter due to the wording on his card, he does not enter and give himself a counter right...ok but then an ally like Kazuul Warlord gives everyone including himself a counter, when he first enters the battlefield, everyone BUT him gets a counter right? then every ally brought in after him, oran already in the field then gets one for himself from his own ability, and then one from kazuul? iguess overall im asking, the first ally out gets nothing for himself, then any ally coming in after that affects the ones in play already is this correct? i just built a five color ally deck and want to be sure how it works before i post it lol. thanks in advance to all who may give insights...pls feel free to post some scenarios and what would happen to who...
it states on the card that whenever Oran-Rief Survivalist comes into play or an ally comes into play he gets a +1/+1 counter.
So he enters the battlefield as a 1/1 which him entering triggers the first part of his ability immediately giving him +1/+1. In effect making him a 2/2 right after he enters. If you counter that triggered ability he would stay a 1/1.
September 9, 2010 11 a.m.
You cast an Oran-Rief Survivalist . Nobody responds, so he resolves. When he enters the battlefield, his ability triggers, and is put on the stack. Nobody responds, and the ability resolves, putting a +1/+1 counter on him.
You cast a Halimar Excavator . Nobody responds, so he resolves. When he enters the battlefield, his ability and the Survivalist's ability trigger, you choose the order in which they go on the stack, you choose a target for the excavator, and the excavator ability checks for the number of allies you control. You have 2. His ability resolves, milling someone for 2, and the Survivalist ability resolves, putting a +1/+1 counter on him.
So, yeah, the Kazuul Warlord would give them all (including himself) a counter, and the Survivalist would get another counter, and the Excavator would mill for 3.
However...once the 187 ability (which is a triggered ability, not a state-based effect) goes on the stack, someone can respond - say, in response to the triggered abilities put on the stack when the Kazuul Warlord comes in, they can cast Chain Reaction , which, barring anything else happening, would kill all your dudes, and the abilities would all resolve, but the person getting milled would get milled for 0.
Summary: Oran-Rief Survivalist enters the battlefield as a 1/1, but gets a +1/+1 counter when the ability resolves. Between when he enters the battlefield and the ability resolves, he's a 1/1.
September 9, 2010 11 a.m.
Triggered ability, not state based effect. I get them mixed up.
September 9, 2010 11:03 a.m.
thanks...we've had this discussion a few times while playing (a couple people in my high school playgroup ran some form of allies), so I've been over it before. particularly that thing about all the allies dying between when the Halimar Excavator ability goes on the stack and when it resolves.
September 9, 2010 11:23 a.m.
WiseHeart65 says... #7
been playtesting this deck all wrong against my dude. man, been taking it easy on him. i assumed these allies did not affect themselves entering the battlefield, you guys sure about that? just dont seem fair lol... i trust you guys and all, and mean no offense lol. when im not sure of an effect while playing with friends, i go with the option thats less severe if im not sure, so i played like 10 matches with this deck NOT giving alies counters for each other unless already on the field. i guess i assumed they dont because it says, "when such and such ENTERS the battlfield, i thought that meant the effect resolved before the creature hit the table. you guys know more than me tho, thats why i asked, and i thank you all...
September 9, 2010 11:25 a.m.
i'm very certain :P that's why Kazandu Blademaster , for example, is so good - it's pretty much a 2/2, with all those shiny abilities, and it gets better in multiples. On the plus side, your deck is a lot better now!
September 9, 2010 11:38 a.m.
WiseHeart65 says... #9
for sure lmao!! ima pound on buckeyebrad tonight rofl, your mine!!!
Vorxis says... #1
01/10/2009 This ability triggers on this creature entering the battlefield, so it will enter the battlefield with its unmodified power and toughness, and then receive a +1/+1 counter a short time later. It does not enter the battlefield with the +1/+1 counter already on it.
The ruling from gatherer website, from Oran-Rief Survivalist .
Seems like it enters the battlefield unmodified, then gets its +1/+1 counter from its own ability during the state-based check? That's how i've interpreted the rulings, but I still may be wrong.
September 9, 2010 10:46 a.m.