Both players die. Who wins?
Asked by Zgarbas 13 years ago
Ok, so I'm playing against someone who is at 3 life. He manages to pull out his 24 damage game-ender...and I play a Refraction Trap . I got to 0 life(technically -1), and so has he.
Who wins?
I have to disagree. Refraction Trap is preventing the next 3 damage. As soon as the damage is coming at you, Refraction Trap prevents 3 and deals it to him before the damage is dealt to you
February 6, 2011 11:51 a.m.
102.3e If a player would both win and lose simultaneously, he or she loses.
102.4a If all the players remaining in a game lose simultaneously, the game is a draw.
So you both lose and it's a draw.
February 6, 2011 12:12 p.m.
emblasochist says... #4
That is only true if you are dealt all the damage at the same time, however, oulani. If the damage was dealt as two spells, for instance, they resolve on the stack differently, and there is time for state-based checks to occur. If you were dealt damage as a result of combat, you would not have enough time to pull out a draw/win, as all combat damage, except first strike damage is dealt all at the same time.
February 6, 2011 12:35 p.m.
Justarsaus says... #5
the damage would be dealt to you then the trap would check to see if its conditions where met... you about to get dealt damage you where (24) it prevents 3 of it and deals damage to your foe causing you too win by technicality
February 6, 2011 2:10 p.m.
I still say Refraction Trap wins the game for you in this situation. It checks to see if you have damage coming at you, prevents 3 of it and redirects it to your opponent before the rest ever hits you. I'm trying to find a ruling on it somewhere.
February 6, 2011 3:14 p.m.
I think that Refraction Trap is preventing the damage as it happens, and deals its damage at the same time, so you would be dealt 21 damage at the same time your opponent would be dealt 3. I think that it would be a draw.
February 6, 2011 4:25 p.m.
thaimaishuu says... #9
-FAQ rulingsIf the chosen source would deal damage, Refraction Trap prevents 3 of that source's damage and the source deals its excess damage (if any) at the same time. Immediately afterward, as part of that same prevention effect, Refraction Trap deals its damage. This happens before state-based actions are checked, and before the spell or ability that caused damage to be dealt resumes its resolution.
Both the damage dealt to you and the damage directed to your opponent happen at the same time. Then, you both would lose the game according to state base action. Since you both lose at the same time, the game would end in a draw.
February 6, 2011 6:12 p.m.
I have always heard that a situation like this depends on the stack.
Think about this:
Both opponents are at 1 life.
Player A plays a lightning bolt.A's bolt goes on the stack.
Player B responds with a lightning bolt.B's bolt goes on the stack.
No responses.
Player B's bolt resolves and player A goes to 0 (-2 actually) health before his spell gets a chance to resolve.
Not 100% sure of that is true but that is how I have been working situations like that when I come across them.
February 6, 2011 7:24 p.m.
emblasochist says... Accepted answer #11
The correct answer in this situation is that if the damage is dealt through a single source, the game is ended as a draw, as both players are losing the game at the same time. If, however, the damage is done as two or more sources, it depends on timing, and what those sources are. In one case, if it is a 21 pt Fireball and a Lightning Bolt and you use Refraction Trap on the Lightning Bolt , you win the game, as long as Lightning Bolt was cast second, as your opponent will have 0 life when the Refraction Trap resolves and the priority will pass, checking state-based effects, where he is dead. If you cast it on the Fireball instead, however, you both lose and it is a draw.
February 6, 2011 10:10 p.m.
Actually, as I read that, it indicates that Refraction Trap's ability interrupts the original damage source, prevents the 3, and does the return damage, before the original damage resolves. The other player would be dead before the rest of the dmg is dealt. If the dmg would still be dealt, then it's a draw. If not, then the player using Refraction Trap would win.
February 6, 2011 10:40 p.m.
thaimaishuu says... #13
I'm not sure how you are reading that...
To me, the quote above reads: after damage has gone through, refraction trap will do its damage. Logically that would sound like Refraction Trap would have to do damage AFTER the original spell did damage. The only reason the game ended in a draw is because the ruling says damage is done before state-based actions are checked, which is when a player loses from having 0 or less life. Remember that state-based actions are only checked after priority is given to a player, not in between spell resolutions."Immediately afterward, as part of that same prevention effect, Refraction Trap deals its damage."
You might be confused with the last part of the ruling
This is referring to the prevention effect itself. It means during the resolution of, let say Spawning Breath , prevention effects shields the damage as much as it can. Afterwards, the spawning breath will continue to resolve and create a spawn token."This happens before state-based actions are checked, and before the spell or ability that caused damage to be dealt resumes its resolution."
I hope that made more sense.
February 7, 2011 2:01 a.m.
thaimaishuu says... #14
emblasochist is right. I assumed that the "24 damage game-ender," Zgarbasmentioned, is from one source, like Fireball . If it was multiple sources then it may use the stack. If it was from a single source or by combat damage, then the prevention effect does not use the stack at all. All damage would happen, be prevented, and, be redirected simultaneously in the case of Refraction Trap .
February 7, 2011 2:15 a.m.
thaimaishuu is right.
There is no longer stack of damage, and even if a player cast a game ending fireball, and the other cast refraction trap, even the condition are checked before damage is dealt, the trap creates a delayed effect that will happen when damage is actually dealt. This means when fireball will resolve. During that, no one receives priority and SBE's are not checked.
Think of SBE as the game priority. As well as the players receive priority so does the game.
If both players lose the game at the same time, the game is a draw.
February 7, 2011 9:36 a.m.
Yep, I misread that, insofar as that I missed the latter half of the "Refraction Trap prevents 3 of that source's damage and the source deals its excess damage (if any) at the same time." part. I was thinking that the rest of the damage occurred after SBE's full effect.
Kisho says... #1
I believe that the damage Refraction Trap deals back, happens after the damage you're dealt, so technically he'd win that one.
February 6, 2011 10:24 a.m.