Can you sacrifice creatures while Earthquake is on the stack? and Does Earthquake deal damage to each creature simultaneously or one by one?
Asked by oltskul 14 years ago
i was playing with my friends Modullar deck..
ive casted Earthquake and Dealt ie. 10DMG to all his creatures..
Can he sacrifice creatures when Earthquake is on stack?
And main question -> Are creatures killed simultaneously? Ergo no creatures left to put Modular counters to.
Or creatures are killed one,then second, then third ect..? and put Modular counters to next - thus makes it tougher and survive the Earthquake.
and by the way. Shroud applyies to him as well. So if he has Privileged Position then he cant put modular counters from one creature to another?
Best regards Otlskul and thank you for the answers :)
Jarrod_0067 says... #2
Okay
To start things off, lets check the ability.
Modular says "This enters the battlefield with number +1/+1 counters on it. When it's put into a graveyard, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact creature."
First question: Can he sacrifice creatures in response to them being destroyed? Yes, but only if they have an activated ability that may be played as an instant. For example, you Lightning Bolt a Qasali Pridemage . By paying 1 and sacrificing it, he can destroy an artifact or enchantment. The Lightning Bolt with no legal targets is countered. Modular, however, is a triggered ability. It is not activated (i.e. sacrifice this creature...), so it hits the graveyard before it goes off.
Second question: what you are really asking is this: if you use Earthquake with enough mana pumped into X to kill all creatures, does he get to choose which order they hit the graveyard and move the counters from the modular cards onto a creature to save it from dying?
No. All creatures are dealt damage simultaneously and hit the graveyard at the same time. All abilities are triggered afterwards and in the order he chooses, but since all his creatures died there are no legal targets for his modular cards anyway.
Question three: read Privileged Position 's text again. "Other permanents you control can't be the targets of spells or abilities your opponents control." He can still use his own abilities on them.
November 4, 2010 4:53 a.m.
you sure about that Jarrod. I agree that damage is dealt simultaneously, but I do not believe that they go into the graveyard simultaneously really. Simultaneous actions like two creature going to the graveyard have a rule that states that the player with priority gets to choose the order if two or more actions are simultaneous (in non-combat damage situations).
So I believe that it may work to move the modular counters. I would need clarification too though.
November 4, 2010 noon
Regarding earthquake: all creatures die at once. Then the player stacks his graveyard in any way he chooses and as such any leave play effects would also be stacked in the same way. This starts from the active player who cast Earthquake (or Day of Judgment ).
Remember golden stack rule: First in - last out! (aka FILO)
If there is something still alive AND the player still lives (indestructible and flying will escape Earthquake ), then modular effects will work. Otherwise the effects fizzle for no valid target.
Hope This helps.
November 4, 2010 2:37 p.m.
@squire1 : all of the creatures go into the graveyard /as/ the spell is resolving, and the triggered abilities are held in limbo, as it were, until Earthquake /finishes/ resolving, at which time, starting with the active player, any triggers are put on the stack. So...Disciple of the Vault triggers, but the various modular dudes all die.
November 4, 2010 8:58 p.m.
@Squire,
You're confusing two rather easily confused issues unfortunately.
What really truly happens by the game rules is as follows:
At the point that earthquake is just finished resolving it has presumably dealt lethal damage to the creatures and yet the creatures are still in play.
Next a player WOULD receive priority and any time a player would receive priority state-based actions and triggered abilities are checked before they get priority (and in that order). In this case there are a bunch of state-based actions to handle from the lethal damage and those creatures will be put into their owner's graveyard simultaneously.
See here:
704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 116, Timing and Priority), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state-based actions are performed as the result of the steps first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.
And of course the action that is triggered is this one in this case:
704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
Note that 704.3 states the state-based actions are all handled at once as a single event. This means they are placed in the graveyard at the same time.
Now, once state-based actions are done being checked triggered abilities are checked and any triggering events that have occurred since the last time they were checked are added to the stack starting with the active player and going in turn order until nobody has any triggered abilities left to add to the stack.
Let me know if you need further clarification, but I think your knowledge of the rules outside of these more troublesome nuances is pretty solid so I'll leave it here for now.
November 5, 2010 12:30 a.m.
thanks for the clarification guys
@Eyehate - that all makes sense. I think you probably nailed it with your answer except one small detail.
My knowledge of the rules straight out sucks. I am not joking, I rarely play anything competitive because I have all kinds of interpretation issues. I kinda wish I knew more, but I know what time allows
November 5, 2010 8:01 a.m.
it's all good - there's a massive amount of rules. I'd like to think I've got most of em down, but I still mess up frequently - Eyehate actually has it right, I always have issues remembering the whole death-by-damage-is-a-state-based-effect thing.
Siegfried says... Accepted answer #1
Yes, he can sacrifice creatures in response to an activation of Earthquake, and if the sacrificed creature had modular its ability would trigger and the counters would be placed before Earthquake resolves.
Once Earthquake resolves, all creatures are dealt damage simultaneously and are destroyed as a state-based action. They will effectively go to the graveyard simultaneously, modular triggers after that and the counters have to go on one of the creatures that survived.
Privileged Position doesn't give shroud, it gives the better version, which also appears on Troll Ascetic and Sacred Wolf . He can target his own creatures with his own spells and abilities, i.e. modular.
November 4, 2010 4:51 a.m.