Can you target a land that just came into play under your opponents control with liquimetal coating and activate baloth cage trap?

Asked by draegen777 14 years ago

Baloth Cage traps wording seems to work when it checks, did an artifact come into play this turn.

Jarrod_0067 says... Accepted answer #1

It wasn't an artifact the moment it entered the battlefield so no

October 21, 2010 8:06 a.m.

bigemobob says... #2

The answer is no, and I believe it is such because: First on the stack you would have Plains , then you would have Liquimetal Coating 's activated ability, then you would have Baloth Cage Trap . So, working from the top down, technically Baloth Cage Trap would resolve first. Since Liquimetal Coating 's activated ability is underneath Baloth Cage Trap , the Plains becomes an illegal target, thus making the Baloth Cage Trap go to your graveyard and your Liquimetal Coating stay tapped. I could be wrong on this, but that's how I understand it.

October 21, 2010 11:57 a.m.

Zylo says... #3

@bigemobob I may be wrong, but I believe you are mistaken in the reasoning. When you play a land it does NOT go on the stack because lands are not spells. The reason that Baloth Cage Trap does not work is because, as Jarrod_0067 said, the land did not enter the battlefield as an artifact and therefor the conditions for Baloth Cage Trap 's alternative cost are not met.

October 21, 2010 12:48 p.m.

kabrazell says... #4

So, let's take another example. Say you wanted to turn an AEther Adept into an artifact as it enters the battlefield in order to trigger Baloth Cage Trap . When you're opponent plays the Adept, it's ability goes on the stack, and you're like "Sweet, I can respond and make it into an artifact".

This won't have the effect you intend. When the Adept is cast, it is considered a spell until AFTER it has entered the battlefield. Liquimetal Coating cannot target spells, and Adept does not become a Permanent until after it has entered the battlefield. You can still respond to it's Unsummon ability and turn it into an artifact, but it has already entered the battlefield as a creature.

October 21, 2010 1:35 p.m.

Scotty4u says... #5

Hm...

So here is the ruling on Oran-Rief, the Vastwood

Oran-Rief's third ability cares about permanents' characteristics at the time the ability resolves, not their characteristics at the time they entered the battlefield. For example, if a blue creature enters the battlefield, then is turned green by a spell or ability, then Oran-Rief's second ability resolves, you'll put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.

And here is Liquimetal Coating and Baloth Cage Trap

Wouldn't Baloth Cage Trap have the same ruling as Oran-Rief, the Vastwood in regards to their effects?

If this is true, then it should be possible to target a land that just came into play under your opponents' control with Liquimetal Coating and activate Baloth Cage Trap .

Please correct me if I'm wrong. :D

October 22, 2010 6:41 a.m.

Jarrod_0067 says... #6

@Scotty4u I am guessing that since the card entered the battlefield as a creature, it only checks for green afterwards. Since the land entered the battlefield as a land before it was changed (note, this is card type, not color or creature subtype, or whatever else) it did not enter the battlefield as an artifact so therefore Baloth Cage Trap will not work

October 22, 2010 7:04 a.m.

kabrazell says... #7

It's not the same effect, there is a difference between having an artifact enter the battlefield under your control, and controlling an artifact that entered the battlefield this turn.

The THAT in Oran Rief's ability means (green creature) and (enter the battlefield) are separate requirements. It basically reads like AND

In order to read like Oran Reif, Baloth cage trap would have to read "If your opponent controls an artifact that entered the battlefield under their control this turn..."

Based on this reading, I don't think it would have the same ruling as Oran Rief.

October 23, 2010 2:33 p.m.

Scotty4u says... #8

Yup, what I said was wrong, and what Jarrod_0067 was right. I looked up the rulings for different scenarios :D and here it is.

I found this in the official rulebook for all the cards in Worldwake.

Here's the link

http://www.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?p=3024780

And for one of the cards here are specific excerpts/rulings that should help answer the question on the Baloth Combo :D

Excerpt 1:

Wind Zendikon U Enchantment -- Aura Enchant land Enchanted land is a 2/2 blue Elemental creature with flying. It's still a land. When enchanted land is put into a graveyard, return that card to its owner's hand.

Excerpt 2: * When a land becomes a creature, that doesn't count as having a creature enter the battlefield. The permanent was already on the battlefield; it only changed its types. Abilities that trigger whenever a creature enters the battlefield won't trigger.

So...excerpt #2 proves your combo to be false. Changing the type of the card will not work. It still doesn't fit the requirement 'artifact entered the field this turn'.

It was a nice try on my part :D, but not good enough haha.

October 23, 2010 6:43 p.m.

This discussion has been closed