How does priority work with multiple creatures per player?
Asked by vic 6 months ago
I control an Ink-Treader Nephilim and several other creatures. My opponent controls several creatures. Let's say we have an equal number of creatures.
I cast a Prey Upon on my Nephilim. Since it is my turn, and I have priority, does that mean I get to copy the Prey Upon for each of my creatures before my opponent can make any copies? Or does it go one for me, then one for him, etc.?
And when does each copy resolve? I'm wondering if I could potentially wipe out his army before he could either target anything or deal any damage to my creatures.
And since this is not complicated enough, now let's do this scenario for a multiplayer game where everybody has several creatures.
Rhadamanthus I overlooked that part. I guess that was a bad example. Well let's suppose some day they make an instant or sorcery that does what Arena does (I don't know of one currently), but not necessarily with the tapping part. Point being that I am only targeting the Nephilim with my spell. Now what happens?
Remember, my main focus is on how priority works in terms of the following:
Which way would it go?
A) All of my creatures get it in the order I choose, then all my opponent's creatures get it in the order he chooses.
B) One of my creatures is targeted, then one of his, then one of mine, then one of his, etc.
July 21, 2024 3:37 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
Like I said earlier, if you make a bunch of copies of a spell simultaneously with an effect you control, then you control the copies and will decide what order they get put onto the stack. They will resolve one at a time according to the order you choose.
If that spell is a "Fight" effect, then one pair of creatures will fight, then another then another and the order is based on what you decided earlier. If you get to a point where one of the creatures in a pair has already died to one of the fights that already resolved, then that "Fight" effect does nothing and you move on.
July 22, 2024 2:43 p.m.
I'm still not clear on which happens between A and B, above. That's really my main point. Maybe I'm not wording it as clearly as I think. I'll try again.
With Ink-Treader Nephilim, both my opponent and I are going to get to have a bunch of our own creatures to target, so each of us gets to choose the order within our own respective sides of the battlefield.
The question is do I (as the priority holder) make a selection first, then my opponent makes one, then me, then him, etc. until all (surviving) creatures have been selected?
OR...
Do I select ALL of my creatures in the order I choose, THEN my opponent selects gets to make all of his selections on his side?
I just want to know if we alternate with me going first, or if it's all of my board first and then all his board second?
July 24, 2024 4:41 a.m.
Targeting is done up front (with Arena you make your choice then the opponent does, for each copy of the effect, as the card's text reads), triggers from different players resolve in reverse turn order (if it's your turn yours go on the stack first, then opponents in turn until the player who precedes you, who's effects resolve first). I'm fairly confident you don't have two triggers on the stack for Arena, just one that involves both players.
In short I think targets are picked for each copy as it goes onto the stack, with you targeting first, then the opponent choosing the second target. The effects then resolve normally, first in last out, so if you somehow created lots of Arena effects simultaneously your opponent can just make all the fights target the same chump and as soon as the chump dies the rest fizzle (but apparently it still taps stuff according to Scryfall).
I got up pretty early this morning, hope I'm not way off base!
July 24, 2024 6:05 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
vic: Sorry, I thought you were still asking about normal fight effects, not Arena's specific behavior. But now it seems like we need to clarify what happens when you make a copy of a spell or ability.
Making a copy of a spell or ability on the stack creates an exact copy that accounts for any choices made during the casting process, including modes, targets, distribution of counters/damage and other such things. This is why every spell/ability copying effect will allow you to choose new targets for the copies (Doublecast, Illusionist's Bracers, etc.) or will tell you something specific about what to do with the targets for the copies (Radiate, Ink-Treader Nephilim, etc.), otherwise copy effects wouldn't be half as useful or interesting. There are no Ink-Treader style effects in the game that can copy a spell/ability with more than one target, meaning you would be using an effect that allows you to choose new targets for the copies. Your opponent wouldn't get a say in it.
To the bigger question you might be asking about what happens when different players need to make choices about something simultaneously: first the active player makes their choices and then the non-active player makes their choices. If there are more than 2 players in the game, then it starts with the active player and goes around the table in turn order. But if your Ink-Treader Nephilim makes a bunch of copies of something, you're the only one who will be making decisions for the order that the copies go onto the stack because you control them all.
July 24, 2024 9:10 a.m. Edited.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
vic: Answers to this question have been up for a while. Normally this is where I'd mark one of the responses as the "Accepted answer" to move this topic out of the list of unanswered questions, but because of the amount of discussion on this and the way it left off, I'll leave it open a few more days to see if you still have any follow-ups.
July 31, 2024 9:29 a.m.
Rhadamanthus Sorry, I just had a really busy period there.
So my main point is just the A or B question and I don't think that was answered. If it was, I missed it. Though some other neat stuff did come out of it.
Let's throw out Prey Upon or any fight-type cards. Let's just say it's Flame Slash.
A. Do all of my creatures get for 4 damage and THEN all of my opponent's creatures get hit for four?
B. Or it is one of mine, then one of his, then one of mine, then one of his, etc.?
Something in one of the responses lead me to believe it's A. But I'm not certain.
August 1, 2024 1:22 a.m.
Ink-Treader has the caster of the spell create copies of the spell, and nobody else.
If you cast the Flame Slash, if there are 10 other creatures on the board and you're playing 7-Sided Star, you are still the only player that creates copies of Flame Slash.
Seeing as all the copies are created simultaneously by the same ability, you have full control over the ordering of the copies on the stack. You choose their order of resolution. These are all your spells, and it doesn't matter who controls which creature. The only restriction is that all the copies will try to resolve before the original targeting the Ink-Treader does.
August 1, 2024 1:35 a.m. Edited.
Yesterday Oh geez, that was dumb (on my part). I guess I read the Nephilim text too quickly. I'm trying to think of something else that would lead to the A or B premise that I had set up, because that's really what I'm after. I just used a bad example.
If I control a permanent or cast some kind of spell that says that everybody gets to do a particular thing with each of their creatures, I want to know how priority works. Is it all of my board first, then all of my opponent's board? Or does it alternate one for one, with me going first?
If I can think of an example of such a card, I'll come back with it.
August 1, 2024 4:13 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #11
The best I can think of right now for your clarified question where each player actually does get their own copy is Hive Mind.
Like I said earlier when I was guessing at the more fundamental question you might have been asking: if different players need to make choices about something simultaneously, first the active player makes their choices and then the non-active player makes their choices. If there are more than 2 players in the game, then it starts with the active player and goes around the table in turn order. In the case of Hive Mind, the first of those players puts their copy of the spell on the stack (on top of the original spell) and makes their decisions first, then the next player's copy will go on top of that, and so on around the table, meaning the spells controlled by each player will end up resolving in reverse turn order.
August 1, 2024 10:49 a.m. Edited.
Rhadamanthus Great example of a spell. I couldn't think of one like that. Okay, yes, that wording settled it for me. It's choice A.
As I was trying to come up with examples, I thought about Wrath of God.
So...as a related follow-up question, what happens if it's one global event (like WoG) that affects all creatures, rather than a series of copies of a spell or effect + targets (like Hive Mind)?
Does the ordering work the same way as Hive Mind? All of my creatures go to the graveyard before anyone else's? I'm guessing it does.
August 4, 2024 5:27 a.m.
If a Wrath resolves, then all creatures die simultaneously. There won't be a time where your creatures are dead but your opponents' are still alive.
However, triggers from those creatures dying are put onto the stack in APNAP order and then resolve in reverse order, like with Hive Mind.
So if you cast the Wrath on your turn in a 4 player game, and each player controlled a Blood Artist and four Bear Cubs, your abilities would go on the stack first after everything dies (and you choose the targets as they're put on the stack). Then the next player in turn order does the same, then the next, and finally the last. Then the stack resolves in first-in, last-out order. So the last player in turn order resolves all their triggers, then the previous player, then the previous player, then finally you.
Rhadamanthus says... #1
This specific scenario can't happen. Prey Upon has two targets, so Ink-Treader Nephilim's ability won't trigger for it.
If you were to somehow make a bunch of copies of a spell simultaneously with an effect you control, you would also control the copies and would decide what order they get put onto the stack. They would resolve one at a time according to the order you chose
In the case of multiple copies of Prey Upon resolving, each fight would be handled individually as each Prey Upon resolves. If a creature is the target of multiple Prey Upons and happens to die after one of the earlier ones, any later ones that targeted it will do nothing when they start resolving because a "fight" effect does nothing if one or both of the creatures are no longer on the battlefield or have otherwise become illegal targets.
July 19, 2024 3:54 p.m.