How does Rite of Replication work with land creatures?
Asked by Jarrod_0067 14 years ago
What happens when I use Rite of Replication on Celestial Colonnade while it is a creature? Do I get a tapped 4/4 blue/white elemental creature with flying and vigilance and no other abilities, or do I get a tapped land that is not a creature but can tap for U or W mana the following turn and has the same abilities as the original land?
MagnorCriol says... #2
Short answer is you get the tapped land. It has to do with the layering rules; I'll explain the specifics of it but it'll take a moment and I figured I'd get you your answer if you just wanted the short version. =p
November 28, 2010 11:01 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... Accepted answer #3
First off, all objects on the battlefield have all of their traits - everything from type (artifact, land, etc) to power/toughness to color are "saved" in a series of what the game rules define as layers. There's 7 of them, and each of them is applied sequentially - things that affect layer 1 are applied before things that affect layer 2, and so on. The layers are as follows:
Layer 1: Copy effects
Layer 2: Control-changing effects
Layer 3: Text-changing effects
Layer 4: Type-changing effects
Layer 5: Color-changing effects
Layer 6: Ability-adding/removing effects
Layer 7: P/T changing effects
The relevance here is that the very first layer to be applied is copy effects. However, Celestial Colonnade 's "manland" ability changes the permanent's type (from Land to Land Creature - Elemental), color (from colorless to white and blue), power/toughness (sets it to 4/4), and its abilities (gives it Flyign and Vigilance). All of which take place on layers farther down the lineup than the copy effects happen.
So when you copy a Colonnade, the copy effect applies and copies the base card, but none of the other effects carry over because they fall higher up on the layering ladder. Or farther down, however you want to see it.
For more information - and a lot of legalese - the pertinent Magic Comprehensive Rules are rule 613, "Interaction of Continuous Effects," and rule 706, "Copying Objects."
November 28, 2010 11:31 p.m.
Jarrod_0067 says... #4
So... what if you had a Quicksilver Gargantuan enter the battlefield as a copy of Celestial Colonnade ?
November 29, 2010 1:55 a.m.
hamburgers says... #5
Jarrod, Rite of Replication , Clone , and Quicksilver Gargantuan each net you a land which is not a man. The gargantuan in particular is crappy, because it will BECOME a 4/4 when you activating it, defeating the point of the dude.
November 29, 2010 2:49 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #6
Hm...that's tricky. But I think the answer is that you get a simple Celestial Colonnade land . It technically has a P/T of 7/7, but since lands don't have P/T (without being something else as well), that trait wouldn't have visible effect.
NOTE: If you then activate your new Quicksilver-Colonnade's "manland" ability, it becomes a 4/4 - NOT a 7/7 - because, again, of the layering rules. (7/7 is a set number; the ability states that it becomes 4/4; so 4/4 overrides. If either one was worded as a +X/+X ability, that'd be a different situation.) This would last until the end of the turn, at which point it goes back to being a land with an invisible 7/7.
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I might be wrong about it keeping the 7/7 even if it has no effect. In rule 706.2 it talks about how a copy takes the "copiable values" of an object, and that "'copiable values' are the values derived from the text printed on the object" (which includes name, P/T, card types/subtypes, text box, even the expansion symbol). One way of reading that could lead to assuming that when the Gargantuan copies the flying manland, because all it "sees" to copy is a land, there's no P/T to copy and thus it simply doesn't have those values, 7/7 or otherwise (until the ability is activated, but again, that's separate).
Either way, the result is for almost all intents and purposes the same. Whether the land has the "invisible" 7/7 or it just doesn't have it at all, it can't really affect anything with it.
November 29, 2010 2:58 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #8
Well. Overall...yeah, it's kinda a waste. =p But there's potential uses for it. If you kick a Rite and copy one of your manlands, you're putting 5 lands out on the battlefield, which could have its uses.
And each of those lands has the "manland" ability; while you probably don't have the mana to activate them all at once (...hopefully, unless you're in some very weird infinite mana combo deck built around this play) that's still a lot of potential flying 4/4s to send at your opponent. Activate one or two, send them in...if any die, you've got more to take their place.
It's very niche and not a good use of the copy ability in most cases. But it's not entirely without possibility.
November 29, 2010 3:20 a.m.
hamburgers says... #9
Mycosynth Lattice Doubling Season Ashes of the Fallen Haakon, Stromgald Scourge , Amulet of Vigor , Rite of Replication , celestial-colonade and Blasting Station . Best infinite combo evarrrrrr
November 29, 2010 3:40 a.m.
well, you get 5 Celestial Colonnade and you already have a Ob Nixilis, the Fallen out...
JaceFace says... #1
Pretty sure you get Celestial Colonnade in its entirety.
November 28, 2010 9:59 p.m.