how does sacrificing tokens work?
Asked by SwiftDeath 14 years ago
my cousin says i can't us Goblin Warrens to sac 2 goblin tokens and untap Goblin Sharpshooter so how does it work.
i think u can.
SwiftDeath says... #2
no im wondering if i can untap goblin sharpshooter by sacing a token. i already know about goblin warrens.
November 25, 2010 9:39 p.m.
However, sacrificed tokens don't go to the graveyard. They simply cease to exist once they leave the battlefield. So Goblin Sharpshooter would not untap.
November 25, 2010 9:41 p.m.
xeratheenigma says... Accepted answer #4
sorry disregard the last part for some reason i just looked at the enchantments ability
but yes it does work the way you think it does.
this is because the sharpshooter only requires a creature to be put in the graveyard to untap. tokens do go to the graveyard even if it is just for an instant. so tokens trigger cards like the sharpshooter and another example Grave Pact 's ability because they enter the graveyard then they disappear.
November 25, 2010 9:42 p.m.
xeratheenigma says... #5
maybe to make it a bit clearer.
a token goes to the graveyard long enough to activate triggered abilities, then the tokens are removed from the game as a state-based action.
November 25, 2010 9:51 p.m.
In fact, if you sacrifice two creatures for that cost, Goblin Sharpshooter 's untap ability triggers once for each creature - that is, twice - and so (assuming it started off untapped) you can sacrifice 2 creatures to activate that ability, then in response to the first untap trigger ping something, then let that untap resolve, then ping something else, then let the second untap trigger resolve, and get 2 damage and end up with an untapped Goblin Sharpshooter .
November 25, 2010 11:28 p.m.
SwiftDeath says... #7
yeah thats how i play him but i wanted to figure out if it was legal anyway thx for the answers all.
November 25, 2010 11:42 p.m.
The Goblin Warrens tokens DO go to the graveyard and they do trigger the Goblin Sharpshooter .
Basically tokens are treated like normal creatures with certain exceptions that are laid out in the rules. The way the exception for tokens in the graveyard is handled is via the following state-based action:
704.5d If a token is phased out, or is in a zone other than the battlefield, it ceases to exist.
This means tokens have to arrive in those other zones before the state-based action that removes them will take action. And now looking at triggered abilities we see that the very action of arriving in the graveyard is enough for the Goblin Sharpshooter to trigger:
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered abilitys trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesnt do anything at this point.
That trigger will sit there and wait for the next time triggered abilities are handled (which will be right after the next time state-based actions are handled). It doesn't matter if the triggering condition is gone by the time the triggered ability is checked, it has already been triggered.
603.2a Because they arent cast or activated, triggered abilities can trigger even when it isnt legal to cast spells and activate abilities. Effects that prevent abilities from being activated dont affect them.
So in short Yes! The tokens do untap the Goblin Sharpshooter and, as Sporkife pointed out above, in this instance both goblin tokens going to the graveyard will cause the Goblin Sharpshooter 's untap ability to trigger one each (ie twice total). And you can, in fact, use his activated ability to deal damage in between those untaps and get 1 damage in for each goblin that hits the graveyard. I'd be happy to walk you through that process if needed, just let me know.
Hope that helps =)
xeratheenigma says... #1
yes u can sac the tokens to use the tokens ability, just like you thought.
lets go through the activation cost: it costs 2 colorless mana, 1 red mana, and the sacrifice of two goblin creatures.
the important part here is the sacrifice of two goblin creatures. it doesn't matter if the goblin creature is a CARD or a TOKEN it can still be sacrificed to pay the cost of the ability's activation.
hope i've helped
November 25, 2010 9:37 p.m.