I was given Slicer but Teferi protectioned outta there, what happens to slicer?

Asked by JurqTheJew 3 months ago

If opponent gives me his Slicer, Hired Muscle  Flip and I Teferi's Protection before end of turn, where does slicer go??

So player A gives his slicer to player B on his upkeep, turn goes normally but before end of turn player B casts Teferis so all his permanents phase out, including slicer. On player B’s end step does slicer go back to player A but stays phased out until B’s next turn? On player C’s, turn can A give them slicer that turn? Basically who controls Slicer at the start of player C’s turn is my main concern here. Like fully controls to the point where they can decide to give slicer away now on players upkeeps

It’s my understanding that because slicer is phased out it cannot return to the owners control which means that player B now controls slicer as if they played the card themself. The “return at end of turn” would either go on the stack from being a continuous effect but the permanent doesn’t technically exist any more so it wont return. Or the return ability wouldn’t go on the stack at all.

I know that if you use a spell like Act of Treason and end the turn with Obeka, Brute Chronologist the creature is now just yours forever because the “until end of turn” part wasn’t able to resolve. I see this as technically different but mechanically very similar to the above scenario.

plainsrunner says... Accepted answer #1

Actually, obeka's ability doesn't let you keep creatures stolen with act of treason-style effects. The reminder text on ending the turn says that "this turn" and "until end of turn" effects end. These effects don't use the stack when ending, so obeka can't stop them by exiling them from the stack.

In regards to your actual question, here's some relevant bits from the most recent comprehensive rules on wizards.com as of 6/7/24:

"702.26f Continuous effects that affect a phased-out permanent may expire while that permanent is phased out. If so, they will no longer affect that permanent once it’s phased in. In particular, effects with “for as long as” durations that track that permanent (see rule 611.2b) end when that permanent phases out because they can no longer see it."

"611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period."

"702.26a Phasing is a static ability that modifies the rules of the untap step. During each player’s untap step, before the active player untaps permanents, all phased-in permanents with phasing that player controls “phase out.” Simultaneously, all phased-out permanents that had phased out under that player’s control “phase in.”"

To summarize, 702.26f says that continuous effects that expire while a permanent is phased out will cease to apply when it phases back in, 611.1 defines continuous effects, showing that act of treason fits the description, and 702.26a says that permanents phase in at the beginning of the untap step of the player who controlled them when they phased out.

TL;DR: slicer would stay phased out until your next untap, at which point it would return to its owner's control until they decide to give it away for a turn again.

Side note, 702.26n explains that if you lose the game before slicer phases back in, it'll phase back in during the untap of the turn after your next turn after losing would have started.

July 25, 2024 6:13 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #2

JurqTheJew: An answer to your question has been up for a while. Since there don't seem to be any follow-ups or corrections that need to be made, I marked it as the "Accepted answer" so this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. In the future, you can take care of this yourself using the "Mark as Answer" button on the response that you feel is the most helpful answer to your question.

August 2, 2024 5:29 p.m.

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