If I flicker Spell Queller will it counter the spell it exiled?
Asked by AwesomeOctopus 8 years ago
I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I am wondering what happens if I play Spell Queller and counter a spell with it then use a flicker effect like Essence Flux. Essence flux has to fully resolve before any triggers that allow the opponent to cast the countered spell go on the stack right? so would the stack resolve in this order:
- 1) exile and return
- 2) ETB counter trigger
- 3) cast for free trigger
in which case it re-counters the spell it exiled the first time, or in this order:
- 1) exile and return
- 2) cast for free trigger
- 3) ETB counter trigger
in which case the ETB counter trigger fizzles.
AwesomeOctopus says... #2
So, to be clear, I can't exile with what you call the ETB2 effect the same spell I exiled with the ETB effect?
July 9, 2016 11:38 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #3
If you target Supreme Verdict with ETB2, it will be exiled under Spell Queller, and ETB1 (the one that would have permanently exiled it) will fizzle because its target is no longer there.
July 9, 2016 11:40 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
Note that if you use Eerie Interlude on Spell Queller that the spell will be permanently exiled without requiring another target.
1.The ETB will trigger when he enters.
2.In response to the ETB you cast Eerie Interlude.
3.Interlude resolves and the LTB goes on the stack above the ETB.
4.The LTB resolves allowing them to cast nothing.
5.The ETB resolves exiling a spell with no way for them to get it back at this point.
6.At EOT the Spell Queller returns. If there is a spell for the ETB to target you will exile that spell. Otherwise the ETB can not be put on the stack because it has nothing to target.
July 10, 2016 8:49 a.m.
AwesomeOctopus says... #5
That's actually a crazy trick I might have to try. will probably get tired of judge getting called though. Although ultimately you are using 2 cards and 6 mana to permanently counter 1 spell, so its utility is questionable.
July 10, 2016 3:45 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #6
Yeah it's not great in standard. I can come up with a few corner cases in which it would be a blowout play but they mostly use older cards or involve a multiplayer game.
July 10, 2016 5:38 p.m.
AwesomeOctopus says... #7
Well what I really plan to do is build a flicker based standard deck, where i do crazy shit like flicker Reflector Mage and Subjugator Angel. in building the preliminary version, anything with a strong ETB effect stood out to me.
July 10, 2016 6:34 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
Well Eerie Interlude seems like something you would want anyway. It allows you to use all of your ETB a second time for a single card and 3 mana. It also helps to dodge Languish since standard is usually pretty creature focussed. If you happen to have an extra 3 mana on a turn you were doing it anyway permanently countering a spell seems like a decent way to use it.
July 10, 2016 7:15 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #9
I don't recall, are there any standard-legal "Archaeomancers"?
July 10, 2016 7:20 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #10
Possessed Skaab but that spreads into esper and i'm not 100% suggesting he go 3 color since IDK about what black ETBs there are
July 10, 2016 7:37 p.m.
AwesomeOctopus says... #11
yeah Possessed Skaab is paying too much for too little. definately not splashing for
July 10, 2016 9:09 p.m.
AwesomeOctopus says... #12
Now in the case that I was originally thinking of, wherein I cast a flicker effect like Essence Flux while Spell Queller's ETB effect is not on the stack. how does that work? I can't chose to have the re-enter the battlefield effect go on top of the LTB effect, so that it re exiles it, can I?
July 10, 2016 9:20 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #13
They get to cast their spell and have it resolve. I wouldn't blink spell queller unless there was a spell you wanted to exile more that was on the stack. The order that things would happen is as follows.
Essence Flux resolves exiling and returning Spell Queller triggering both the ETB and LTB. They can not go on the stack while Essence Flux is resolving so they wait until the next time a player receives priority.
When a player receives priority all triggers that have happened since the last time a player received priority go on the stack. They go on in APNAP order and if a player controls more than one trigger they get to choose the order they go on the stack.
As part of putting the ETB on the stack you have to choose a target. The LTB has not yet resolved so the exiled spell is not on the stack to be targeted.
Whenever the LTB resolves the player whose spell you exiled gets the opportunity to cast it. As I said before, unfortunately this happens after targets are chosen for the ETB.
Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #1
Note that it doesn't counter the spell, it exiles it. This is important due to uncounterable spells like Supreme Verdict.
In order for this to work, there has to be a second spell on the stack that is targetable say Lightning Bolt.
You flash in Spell Queller, targeting a Supreme Verdict with the ETB ability. In response to the ETB ability, you cast Essence Flux, triggering its LTB effect. It re-enters the battlefield, triggering another ETB effect. (ETB2). Both the LTB and ETB2 abilities go on the stack together (In whatever order you decide), but ETB2 must target a different spell, the Lightning Bolt.
Then the LTB will resolve, allowing the opponent to cast their spell for free, except the very first ETB ability has yet to resolve so there is no spell exiled yet.
Then the first ETB resolves, and permanently exiles Supreme Verdict.
Note this works especially well with Archaeomancer + Ghostly Flicker . (if not playing standard).
July 9, 2016 10:49 p.m.