If my opponent plays jace the mind sculptor can I kill it using Vampire Hexmage before he bounces the hexmage?
Asked by zigkid3 14 years ago
say i have a Vampire Hexmage out. my opponent summons jace. i sac hexmage to remove all of jace's counters to kill him. his jace tries to bounce the hexmage. who wins? creature abilities can be used as instants correct?
It works like this.
1.He casts Jace.
2.Jace is put on the stack.
3.Since he wasn't countered, he resolves.
4.Once on the field, he gets priority to activate any of Jace's abilities.
- That ability is put on the stack. Loyalty counters are added.
- IN RESPONSE, you can activate Hexmages ability to kill Jace.
- All the abilities resolve, Jace dies from lack of loyalty counters, and Jace's ability fizzles without a target.
November 18, 2010 3:46 p.m.
hexmage wins any way you slice it. planeswalker abilities are at sorcery speed. creature abilities are at instant
November 18, 2010 9:34 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #5
Thank the Magic gods for that, too. PWs would be pretty ridiculous - more so than they are now - if they could activate at instant speed.
November 18, 2010 9:47 p.m.
Sorry to butt in, but that's not exactly true.
Say you have your Vampire Hexmage out. Your opponent then casts Jace Beleren or jace, the mind sculptor, or any planeswalker at all.
When your opponent plays their Planeswalker spell and passes priority to you, you can respond to counter that Planeswalker. They're still a spell on the stack. Now, assuming that no one counters it, both players pass priority without doing anything.
Your opponent's Planeswalker resolves, and they are the active player, since it's their turn. Since they're the active player, they have priority now. You can't just horn in and chuck a Lightning Bolt or sac Vampire Hexmage all over their face.
You must wait until you have priority. What this means, is that the opponent gets to trigger their Planeswalker's ability first.
The + or - abilities for planeswalkers are costs. You cannot respond to an opponent paying a cost. You can respond to the ability but by then, the cost has already been paid. So let's say that your opponent played Jace Beleren , and he now activates the +2 ability. First, the cost is paid, meaning Jace gains +2 counters, bringing him to 5. If you were hoping to Lightning Bolt Jace, you can't kill him that way. The counters go on for sure.
Vampire Hexmage however, can be sac'd in response to Jace's ability of you both drawing cards going onto the stack (but again, not the cost itself). The Hexmage explodes, blows all counters off of Jace, but his ability is still on the stack, and you both draw a card.
So, yes, the Planeswalker will always get at least one trigger of their ability off before you merc them with Hexmage.
There is ONE exception. If your opponent chooses to cast a spell or trigger a different ability first, they end up passing priority to you, and that's a different story.
November 19, 2010 2:07 a.m.
In the specific example OP cites however, it is true that jace, the mind sculptor cannot save his own existence with the -1 ability. He is better served using any of the other abilities available to him to get a use out of them, unless he was trying to bounce a different creature aside from the Hexmage. The +2 or 0 abilities would not fizzle even after Jace departs into hexmage-wraught oblivion.
November 19, 2010 2:10 a.m.
Zanven's last two posts above are the correct answer with good details and explanations.
This is actually topic that a lot of players don't fully appreciate really.
Priority tells you the order that players get to add spells/abilities to the stack during a step.
Instant-speed or Sorcery-speed just tells you the conditions that must be met to in order to add spells/abilities to the stack (ie sorceries can only be cast if you're in your main phase and the stack is empty).
If it is your turn, you have priority, the stack is clear, and you want to activate a sorcery-speed ability you just get to and nobody can stop you. Regardless of whether your opponent has an instant-speed ability or a split-second spell etc...
Put simply, when you have priority you get the option to put any spell or ability you can legally cast or activate onto the stack before they get the option to do anything. Period.
November 19, 2010 7:55 a.m.
djdauenbaugh says... #9
I'm pretty new to magic and have a lot of things to catch up on. After reading this discussion, I have a question. Do planeswalkers have summoning sickness? Thanks.
November 23, 2010 4:29 a.m.
No. As soon as the stack empties and your planeswalker is on the battlefield, you can use its abilities as long as it is still your turn's main step.
Question --- can you save Venser, the Sojourner by having him exile himself if someone is about to delete him on my turn?
October 10, 2013 5:31 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #11
Holy necroposting, Batman. This post was over 2 years old dude.
To answer the question, no. Planeswalker abilities can only be activated at sorcery speed, meaning the stack has to be empty. If they've cast a spell that will kill Venser, you can't make him blink himself in response.
Legendinc says... #1
i believe your Vampire Hexmage would win
i don't think your opponent could bounce a creature back into your hand once you've already declared that you're sacrificing Vampire Hexmage as a response to him/her playing jace, the mind sculptor
and yes, creature abilities can be played as instants, while planeswalker abilities are played as sorceries.
so if it was your turn, he/she couldn't do anything about Vampire Hexmage being sacked in any case, anyway.
November 18, 2010 3:36 p.m.