if you redirect damage with Vengeful Archon with enough damage to kill your opponent and your opponent still does enough damage to kill you who wins or is it a draw?
Asked by SwiftDeath 14 years ago
this happened at the M11 pre-release and i never found out the answer.
KrazyCaley says... Accepted answer #2
It's a draw. If all the players would lose the game, it is a draw.
November 15, 2010 6:05 a.m.
I can see how that would cause a draw, as combat damage is all dealt in one go, but what about non-combat? Let your life = 1, opponent's life = 2. Opponent casts Lightning Bolt at you, you respond with Vengeful Archon to redirect 2 damage back at him. Would your opponent lose after Archon deals his damage but before Bolt resolves? Or does the damage occur simultaneously since Archon's effect is a case of "prevent the next" damage?
November 15, 2010 9:22 a.m.
well, I'm not sure...if Vengeful Archon 's activated ability results in a triggered ability whenever you're dealt damage (the damage to the opponent) then your opponent wins. I'm pretty sure this is what happens...but feel free to prove me wrong.
November 15, 2010 10:03 a.m.
KrazyCaley says... #5
Vengeful Archon's ability is a prevention effect and the "if" clause means that as soon as the damage is prevented, the damage is dealt, without using the stack and before state-based actions are checked. It's not a separate triggered ability; it all falls under the umbrella of that one activated ability that creates the damage prevention shield in the first place.
Thus, in Siegfried's scenario, everybody dies and it is again a draw.
November 15, 2010 11:52 a.m.
alright, I thought it was a triggered ability with an intervening "if" clause. never mind then.
November 16, 2010 5:32 p.m.
As taken from http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/tolarian-academy-%E2%80%93-trigon-of-ragequit/:
Q: My opponent is at 1, and Ive just drawn the last card in my library Zap . When I Zap my opponent, hell take 1, putting him to 0, and Ill draw from my empty library. Who loses? Who wins?
A: Losing the game due to having 0 life or less or drawing from an empty library happens as a state-based action and cant occur during the resolution of a spell or ability. Instead, that you lose the game action lurks, waiting until a player would get priority. Then, it strikes! In this case, you (the active player) would get priority after the resolution of Zap. Instead, the game sees two state-based actions it needs to take:
1) Your opponent dies due to having 0 life. 2) You die due to having drawn from an empty library.
It takes those two actions simultaneously, meaning you both lose. What does that mean for your game? Well, the rules tell us this:
104.4a. If all the players remaining in a game lose simultaneously, the game is a draw.
So, its a draw! Shuffle up and keep playing!
November 19, 2010 12:26 p.m.
NoSkillManiac says... #8
You technically lose the game at the end of whoever's turn it is, therefore if you both deal enough combat/non-combat damage to each other to kill each other during that turn, it's a draw.
December 4, 2010 7:10 p.m.
Incorrect. The game checks whether a player has met the conditions to lose the game whenever state-based effects are checked, so you can lose at any point during the game that a player has priority.
SwiftDeath says... #1
say ur at 5 life and ur opponent is at 8 life ur opponent hits u with 17 combat damage and u redirect 10 of it with Vengeful Archon ur at -2 life and ur opponent is at -2 life what happens?
November 15, 2010 5:28 a.m.