is a copied spell played or cast?
Asked by Micah_408 13 years ago
Im trying to build a deck that is complete control, by using Hive Mind with an epic spell. I was wondering about the epic copy, is the copy cast or played or what?
The reason Im asking is I want to know what enchantments to use to make the most out of my 1 copy per turn.
Additionally, Oracle rulings on Hive Mind :
10/1/2009: Hive Mind's effect is mandatory. Each other player must copy the spell whether they want to or not.
10/1/2009: Hive Mind will copy any instant or sorcery spell, not just one with targets.
10/1/2009: If a player casts an instant or sorcery spell, Hive Mind's ability triggers and is put on the stack on top of that spell. Hive Mind's ability will resolve first. When it does, it creates a number of copies of that spell equal to the number of players in the game minus one. First the player whose turn it is (or, if that's the player who cast the original spell, the player to that player's left) puts his or her copy on the stack, choosing new targets for it if he or she likes. Then each other player in turn order does the same. The last copy put on the stack will be the first one that resolves. (Note that the very last thing to happen is that the original spell resolves.)
10/1/2009: The copies that Hive Mind's ability creates are created on the stack, so they're not "cast." Abilities that trigger when a player casts a spell (like Hive Mind's ability itself) won't trigger.
10/1/2009: Each copy will have the same targets as the spell it's copying unless its controller chooses new ones. That player may change any number of the targets, including all of them or none of them. If, for one of the targets, the player can't choose a new legal target, then it remains unchanged (even if the current target is illegal).
10/1/2009: If the spell that's copied is modal (that is, it says "Choose one --" or the like), the copy will have the same mode. A player can't choose a different one.
10/1/2009: If the spell that's copied has an X whose value was determined as it was cast (like Earthquake does), the copy has the same value of X.
10/1/2009: A copy's controller can't choose to pay any additional costs for the copy. However, effects based on any additional costs that were paid for the original spell are copied as though those same costs were paid for the copy too.
10/1/2009: If a copy says that it affects "you," it affects the controller of the copy, not the controller of the original spell. Similarly, if a copy says that it affects an "opponent," it affects an opponent of the
January 26, 2011 8:33 p.m.
continued:
it affects an opponent of the copy's controller, not an opponent of the original spell's controller.
NOW!
The copy itself is not cast. In case you had any other questions, I hope they can be answered with the previous walls of text.
January 26, 2011 8:34 p.m.
I really hate to be rude, or sound ungrateful, but could you translate that?
Is it cast or played?
January 26, 2011 8:45 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #5
I believe it means neither. It is simply copied...so if the spell needs targets it chooses targets, or if it does not need targets it just resolves.
Additionally the copy can be countered.
Does that help?
January 26, 2011 8:50 p.m.
To summarize what mafteechr said, it is played, not cast.
January 26, 2011 8:54 p.m.
I'm actually not sure played is the correct word, hive mind's effect goes on the stack then resolves and then the copies of the spell then appears on the stack, they can be countered when they are on the stack as theemptyquiver said.
(The person who played the spell being copied has their copy, the original spell resolve last according to mafteechr)
January 26, 2011 8:58 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #8
http://tappedout.net/mtg-questions/does-copying-a-spell-count-as-casting-it/
Link to a similar question.
Also, Played is the same as cast. That's why I had said neither before.
Although the accepted answer in the previous question seems to slightly contradict the line of thinking gathered from the earlier rulespam.
January 26, 2011 9:19 p.m.
So just to be clear the copy is not cast or played, it just is there?
January 26, 2011 10:12 p.m.
doinitwrong says... #11
The copy is neither cast nor played because neither Hive Mind nor the Epic ability (i.e. Endless Swarm ) say "...cast the copy..." or "...play the copy..."
January 26, 2011 10:45 p.m.
If you read my final post, I said that copies are not cast.
January 27, 2011 12:56 a.m.
theemptyquiver says... #13
Ok ok. Sometimes tiny posts get lost amongst all the big ones!
January 27, 2011 2:36 a.m.
emblasochist says... #14
Unless an effect that copies a spell specifically says that it casts it, a copy is not casted. Isochron Scepter with it's current wording is able to cause the spell imprinted on it to be casted, but that is not usually the case.
mafteechr says... #1
Suddenly, rule spam!
706.9. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isnt cast and a copy of an activated ability isnt activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability. A copy of a spell is owned by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell is itself a spell, even though it has no spell card associated with it. A copy of an ability is itself an ability.
706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original objects characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by as . . . enters the battlefield and as . . . is turned face up abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
January 26, 2011 8:31 p.m.