Ketramose + Planar Void
Asked by TirelessSlacker 4 days ago
I am interested in the interaction between Ketramose, the New Dawn and Planar Void. As I read it, the effect from Planar Void is not a replacement effect and thus, each card touches the graveyard before it gets exiled. In other words, instants and sorceries also trigger Ketramose? And what happens in the following scenario: Let's assume I have 8 cards in hand and go into my cleanup step. I then discard down to 7 and the discarded card gets exiled by planar void. Do I redraw and start this process all over again, meaning that I either kill or deck myself via Ketramose?
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2
TypicalTimmy has the right idea.
First, your understanding of Planar Void is correct. It's a triggered ability that triggers when the card goes to the graveyard. When the trigger resolves, the card moves from the graveyard to exile.
If something happens during the Cleanup step that requires a triggered ability to be put onto the stack or a state-based action to be performed, then the game will deal with those things in the normal way, including giving players priority to take actions, and will start another Cleanup step right after it. This will continue until the game finally gets through a Cleanup where none of these extra things needed to happen.
In your example this means if you discard any cards to get down to your max hand size during Cleanup, Planar Void will trigger, causing Ketramose, the New Dawn to trigger. The game will start another Cleanup, you will need to discard again because of the card you drew from Ketramose, and you will keep doing this until you lose from having 0 life or from trying to draw from an empty library.
It's interesting to note that a similar interaction with the Cleanup step is sometimes also used as a "feature" in The Gitrog Monster decks. This Ketramose/Planar Void interaction could also be used as a feature if you have something keeping you from losing the game in one or more of these ways (Angel's Grace, Phyrexian Unlife etc.).
514.3. Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger “at the beginning of the next cleanup step”). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
TypicalTimmy says... #1
It... does kind of seem like it might just be an infinite loop to kill yourself dry
Note though, normally discarding for the end step is not an action and therefore can not be responded to. But in this case it's an triggered ability, which can be as priority would pass.
So players have the means to save you, technically. More importantly you can save yourself if you have appropriate removal such as Path to Exile on Ket
But don't mark my response as the accepted answer. Let's wait until someone has an actual rules code to cite or a similar interaction to fall back on.
But as I read it, yeah you'd deck yourself with no other options
February 17, 2025 3:59 a.m. Edited.