Looking for help with the stack and how to best use it for Eldrazi.
Asked by bhst5019 4 months ago
I am having difficulty setting up the stack in this scenario. How many tokens are created and whether if I pay Ulalek, Fused Atrocity ability its copied as though it has been paid for 2 total. So, I have Ulalek, Fused Atrocity and Leyline of Anticipation with enough mana to cast the next 2 Eldrazi spells. I proceed to cast Glaring Fleshraker and Propagator Drone both at instant speed due to layline. My guess is this is what happens as far as the stack is concerned.
cast Glaring Fleshraker
Trigger Ulalek, Fused Atrocity
Cast [[Propagator Drone]
Trigger Ulalek, Fused Atrocity paying this one
The way I think it works is this.
casted Glaring Fleshraker 1 token
Trigger Ulalek, Fused Atrocity
Casted Propagator Drone 1 Token
Copied Trigger Ulalek, Fused Atrocity *paying this one
Then
casted Glaring Fleshraker 2 tokens
Trigger Ulalek, Fused Atrocity *not paying
Casted Propagator Drone 2 Tokens
Copied Copied Trigger Ulalek, Fused Atrocity
So I end up with 3 total Propagator Drones and 3 total Glaring Fleshrakers. Is my thinking correct?
Rhadamanthus says... #2
When you say "token", it's not clear whether you mean the token copies of Glaring Fleshraker and Propagator Drone that are created by Ulalek, Fused Atrocity's trigger or you mean the Eldrazi Spawn tokens created by Fleshraker's trigger.
This is what you do to maximize the total copies of both Fleshraker and Drone, assuming you want more Fleshrakers:
1. Cast Fleshraker. Ulalek's ability triggers
2. Pay for Ulalek's trigger. You get a copy of the Fleshraker spell
3. Before the copy of the Fleshraker spell starts resolving, respond by casting Drone. Ulalek's ability triggers
4. Pay for Ulalek's trigger. You get a copy of the original Fleshraker spell, the copy of the Fleshraker spell and the Drone spell
5. After everything resolves, you end up with 2 total Drones and 3 total Fleshrakers
Fleshraker does not trigger in this example because it was not on the battlefield while any spells were being cast. If you want some Spawn from the Drone casting, you'll need to let one or both of the Fleshrakers resolve first before casting Drone.
This is what you do to maximize the number of Eldrazi Spawn tokens made from Fleshraker's trigger:
1. Cast Fleshraker. Ulalek's ability triggers
2. Pay for Ulalek's trigger. You get a copy of the Fleshraker spell. Let them both resolve
3. Cast Drone. Ulalek triggers and both Fleshrakers trigger. Order the triggers with Ulalek's on top so it will start resolving first
4. Pay for Ulalek's trigger. You get a copy of the Drone spell and a copy of both Fleshraker triggers
5. After everything resolves, you get the original Drone, a copy of the Drone and a total of 4 Eldrazi Spawn tokens
Note that creating a copy of the Drone spell does not trigger Fleshraker again because the copy isn't being "cast", it's just being created directly on the stack.
July 9, 2024 8:58 a.m.
Sorry yes. I mean a copy of the creature themselves. I know no tokens are made with Fleshraker. I am really confirming if it was Ulalek's ability was copied by his own ability again and added at the end of the stack, and how to use it to my advantage. So if I did this way by casting both fleshraker and propagator drone would it create the same number of tokens of each?
Cast Fleshraker
Ulalek's triggered ability (dont pay this one)
Cast Propagator
Ulalek's triggered ability (pay this one)
Causes this to happen
Casting of Fleshraker
Ulalek's triggered ability (dont pay this one)
Casting of Propagator
(paid ulalek trigger) (Token Fleshraker, Token Propagator, Copy ulalek triggered ability)
Copied Ulalek Trigger pay this one copy everything on the stack.
Resulting in 2 token copies of each creature and their non token counterparts?
July 9, 2024 10:29 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #4
You're right, I didn't consider the copy of the first Ulalek trigger that would be made if you left it on the stack. Using that, you could keep going with making copies as long as you had another to spend each time. As long as the initial Ulalek trigger is still waiting on the stack, any Ulalek trigger that you pay for will make a copy of it, including those copies themselves.
July 9, 2024 3:19 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
@bhst5019: Responses to your question have been up for a while. There don't seem to be any more follow-ups or corrections that need to be made, but since there was some confusion on this initially I'm going to leave it open for a couple more days to give you a chance to mark what you feel is the most helpful response as the "Accepted answer". Feel free to respond with any more follow-up questions if you don't feel like it's been resolved.
wallisface says... #1
How this works:
You cast Glaring Fleshraker, this doesn’t make you any eldrazi tokens because its not yet on the battlefield yet
While Glaring Fleshraker is still on the stack, you cast Propagator Drone. As Glaring Fleshraker is still on the stack and not in play, you still create no eldrazi tokens.
While both those creatures are on the stack, you pay the ability for Ulalek, Fused Atrocity. You end up with no tokens (as none were made), but a copy of each of those two creatures.
If you’re wanting to create eldrazi tokens from Glaring Fleshraker, it needs to be in play. In which case, the following would happen:
You cast Glaring Fleshraker, this doesn’t make you any eldrazi tokens because its not yet on the battlefield yet. But you let it resolve and enter play.
You cast Propagator Drone. As Glaring Fleshraker is on the battlefield, a trigger is made to create an eldrazi token.
While both the Propagator Drone and eldrazi-token-creating ability are on the stack, you pay the ability for Ulalek, Fused Atrocity. You end up with two tokens (you only copy the ability, the extra Propagator Drone isn’t cast so doesn’t make more), and a copy of Propagator Drone.
July 8, 2024 5:21 p.m.