Tangle Angler and Thrumming bird (2 Q's)
Asked by zigkid3 14 years ago
1) If i have Tangle Angler and my opponent has a Royal Assassin , how would this work?:
I tap a forest to force the Royal Assassin to block my Tangle Angler , then i attack with Tangle Angler so the Royal Assassin dies from blocking it. however, my friend claims he can use Royal Assassin 's ability at the same time as blocking and have both of them die. but i'm saying if its at the same time then that means he is tapped and thus can't block because you cant be tapped and block, you have to be untapped.
2) with thrumming-bird, well this is more of a proliferate question really. with proliferate can I add counters to my creatures? like make a 2/2 become a 3/3? or does a creature have to have a counter from an outside source first which then needs to be proliferated?
Proliferate as a mechanic grants plus one counter to any permanent or player that already possesses one of that counter, so a Hada Freeblade could gain a counter from proliferate for example.
To your first question, during the declare attack your Tangle Angler becomes tapped to attack, then you use its ability to force Royal Assassin to block Tangle Angler , in response to your activated ability your friend used his creatures ability to kill your creature before combat damage was assigned.
I believe what I have said is correct, but I may have misnamed a part of the turn or didn't clearly describe the answer you sought.
October 7, 2010 9:01 p.m.
xeratheenigma says... #3
i think you had the name for the part of the turn correct the combat step is broken into 3 parts: the first is the declare attackers step followed by the declare blockers step and finally the combat damage step
you can use instants and activated abilities anytime prior to the combat damage step
October 7, 2010 9:11 p.m.
In that case, new question.
say i have Hand of the Praetors out and say a Tangle Angler making the tangle angler a 2/6.
can i proliferate that +1/+1 given to him from the praetor? my friend says no because it only says +1/+1 instead of saying +1/+1 counter. so can i or no? and then whether the answer was yes or no, lets say that if you could and then proliferated him to a 3/7, then if Hand of the Praetors dies what would happen to the Tangle Angler ? would i keep the proliferated counter and be a 2/6? or would the proliferation effects go away as well since the +1/+1 wasnt a permanent change and because it was only temporary so long as preators was out, and then go back to a 1/5?
October 7, 2010 11:29 p.m.
xeratheenigma says... #5
the answer would be no because hand of the praetors grants a +1/+1 while it is on the battlefield which is not a +1/+1 counter
the +1/+1 granted by the hand of the praetors goes away when he leaves the battlefield so your 2/6 tangle angler would become a 1/5 as soon as hands of the praetors leaves the battlefield
October 7, 2010 11:50 p.m.
Jarrod_0067 says... #6
May I use the rulebook?
121.1. A counter is a marker placed on an object or player that modifies its characteristics and/or interacts with a rule, ability, or effect. Counters are not objects and have no characteristics. Notably, a counter is not a token, and a token is not a counter. Counters with the same name or description are interchangeable.
121.5. If a spell or ability refers to a counter being "placed" on a permanent, it means putting a counter on that permanent while it's on the battlefield, or that permanent entering the battlefield with a counter on it.
Since Hand of the Praetors has the ability "Other creatures you control with infect get +1/+1.", creatures you control get a "boost" of +1/+1 as long as Hand of the Praetors is on the battlefield.
No counters are put on those creatures as it's effect has no association with counters. If it did, it would say something like this:
"Creatures you control with infect have an additional +1/+1 counter on them for as long as Hand of the Praetors is on the battlefield."
As far as I know it has never been done before in MTG history as it could easily be broken with today's format, would be too complicated and overpowered.
Back to your original question about Proliferate.
Proliferate card text is as follows:
Proliferate (You choose any number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there.)
Assuming you have a normal 2/2 creature on the battlefield with no abilities and no counters on it, you cannot "choose" it. Similarly, you cannot make counters appear at will.
Putting this into perspective, you may have a Feral Hydra , a Garruk Wildspeaker and your opponent has 1 poison counter. If you use a card that causes you to proliferate, this is what happens:
Step 1: The ability is activated and goes on the stack. It is at this point you choose permanents and/or players to add counters to, and the type of counters to be added. This also includes planeswalkers. If the ability is not countered, and no spell is placed on top of the stack, the ability starts to resolve.
Step 2: Put counters on those permanents and players. This means, Feral Hydra gets a +1/+1 counter, Garruk Wildspeaker gets +1 loyalty counter and your opponent gains an additional 1 poison counter, totaling 2.
NOTE: I may be wrong about this, but as far as I know, once the type of counter has been chosen, you cannot change your mind. This means if a Surrakar Spellblade has both a +1/+1 counter on it AND a charge counter, if you initially choose to put a charge counter on it but your opponent plays Shock in response, you cannot change your choice to a +1/+1 counter.
Also, you cannot choose both types of counters if there are more than 1, and you cannot put more than 1 counter on a permanent at a time.
xeratheenigma says... Accepted answer #1
for question 1 : you force the royal assasin to block, then you declare your tangle angler as attacking so when you tap the tangle angler due to attacking he can then in response use the royal assasin's ability to destroy the tapped tangle angler he can do this before blockers are even declared meaning he can kill the angler and the royal assasin wont take damage thus the royal assasin would live
as for question 2 : yes there must already be a counter on the permanent you wish to proliferate you just cant add counters to permanents with proliferate
October 7, 2010 8:59 p.m.