Vengevine - If it's countered, can it still come into play when you cast a second creature?
Asked by cardcoin 13 years ago
Ok, here's the board position
1x Vengevine in the graveyard, 1x vengevine in hand, as well as a Birds of Paradise in hand, with 5 mana available.
If I cast a Vengevine but it was countered, then cast the Birds of Paradise , do I get 2 Vengevine s coming into play, or just 1?
I'm almost sure it's both, but I'm just wanting to clarify if this is the case...
TimProctor says... #2
It is both, the trigger is when you cast, not when it resolves.
I know there was an article on Wizards about the Eldrazi and how their effects happened when 'cast' not when resolved.
Vengevine should be the same, I believe the storm is counted the same way also. I'm going to see if I can find reference materials.
January 4, 2011 6:46 p.m.
NoSkillManiac says... #3
Because the second Vengevine is not in the graveyard when it's effect would trigger, it goes to the graveyard and doesn't come back until you can trigger his ability again.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :P
January 4, 2011 6:51 p.m.
NoSkillManiac says... #4
Oh your saying Vengevine first, then yeah they both show up. :P
January 4, 2011 6:52 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #5
Yes, you would get both of them. Because Vengevine just checks to make sure you have cast a second creature spell you would get both back because they are both in your graveyard. It does not matter how the Vengevine s got into your graveyard, it just matters that they are both in your graveyard when you cast your second creature spell for the turn.
January 4, 2011 7:36 p.m.
lol, I'm not playing with a Leyline of Anticipation and casting the Birds of Paradise immediately after the counterspell is on the stack :P
All joking aside, The second Vengevine would be in the graveyard when the casting of Birds of Paradise is announced.
I'm just wanting to make sure that I'm right in saying that even though it's not in the graveyard as the first creature spell is being cast, that when the second one is, that it can be counted in the second creature spell being cast" catagory.
I beleive it should, but just wanting to make sure I'm right in saying it is.
Now, to twist things a little further, say you don't have the Vengevine in the graveyard until your about to cast a third creature spell, I'm assuming that it won't trigger, as it is indeed the 3rd creature spell in that turn being casted by you and NOT the second, right?
I found on gatherer.wizards.com the answer's persay, but thanks goes to Asalik for getting in with the confirmation per say.
From Gatherers rulings...
Vengevine doesn't need to be in your graveyard as you start casting your second creature spell in a turn, only as you finish. This matters if you sacrifice a Vengevine on the battlefield while casting that creature spell, perhaps to pay a cost of that spell or a cost of a mana ability.
Vengevine's triggered ability checks the card types of the spells you cast over the course of the entire turn, not just the ones you cast while Vengevine is in your graveyard. For example, if you cast a creature spell, then Vengevine is put into your graveyard, then you cast another creature spell, Vengevine's ability triggers.
Vengevine's ability triggers only for the second creature spell you cast in a turn. It won't trigger for the third, fourth, or so on. It also doesn't matter how many noncreature spells you cast in a turn; the ability counts just the creature spells.
Asalik says... Accepted answer #1
I would have to say that both vengevines come back into play as the card reads that the only prerequistes are casting two creature spells and and the vengevine being in the graveyard at the time of casting of the second creature spell. Meaning that te vengevine doesnt have to be in the graveyard at the time of the first creature spell.
January 4, 2011 6:44 p.m.