What happens if I play a Mycosynth Lattice and then a March of the Machines, then an opponent plays Humility?
Asked by cheetos 14 years ago
i play mycosyth lattice then march of the machines then someone plays humility....what happens?
Well, first off, i am wondering how they played that Humility , because the second that March of the Machines comes into play everyone's lands turned into 0/0 creatures and were sent straight to the graveyard. That's right, lands have Converted Mana Cost of 0.
But, let's say they had some other mana producers out and were able to play humility. Because it came into play after the march of the machines its effect takes precedence. All your permanents are 1/1 creatures. all your base are belong to us.
November 12, 2010 3 a.m.
johnsene is correct.
If 2 global effects are on the field at the same time and they conflict, the last one played takes effect and replaces the first one. There was a lot of confusion about that when Godhead of Awe came out.
November 12, 2010 3:08 a.m.
Then all permanents would be effected by March of the Machines effect. The state base effect would kill the lands because they would have to turn into creatures before they could become 1/1's... I'm thinking I'm right about this but I might not be.
November 12, 2010 3:11 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #7
Actually, I think the lands would die because, with the March taking precedence, Humility wouldn't be able to turn the lands into 1/1 creatures. Humility turns all creatures into 1/1s, and then the March comes in and takes over, and turns everything (thanks to the Lattice) into creatures, which kills the lands. Humility never has a say in the matter.
That's in the second scenario. In your first one, johnsene's right, the March would take effect and kill off all the lands before the Humility had the chance to affect things.
The rules governing how "Continuous effects" that modify power/toughness interact with each other give me a headache usually. They're just simple enough to seem straightforward, and just complicated enough to trip my brain up once it starts feeling it's got the hang of them.
November 12, 2010 3:39 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... Accepted answer #8
SHORT ANSWER:
OKAY, pored over the rules, I have it down. The short answer, if you don't want the proof, is that they were right - it's first come first serve here (notably, unlike the stack), so after Mycosynth Lattice turns everything into artifacts, March of the Machines turns everything into artifact creatures - and kills all the suddenly 0/0 lands at the next state-based action - and after that Humility turns everything from [CMC]/[CMC] artifact creatures into 1/1 artifact creatures.
LONG-WINDED RULES EXPLANATION:
The rules that govern this are a "layering system" that separates out each sort of change that can happen to a card (text change, color change, control change, etc) out into 7 layers. Only two matter here so I won't bog things down listing the rest. Layer 4 is type-changing effects, and layer 7 is the power/toughness changes.
- If an effect applies to multiple layers or sublayers, it applies to all of them, at the same time - even if the thing it's applying to doesn't technically have the values it's setting yet. The specific example they give is about an effect that makes all noncreature artifacts into 2/2 artifact creatures. This changes the type - layer 4 - and sets (that's significant) the P/T to 2/2, even though, technically speaking, the noncreature artifacts didn't have a P/T to affect when the spell was cast.
- Layer 7 is actually broken down into five sublayers to catch all the different sorts of P/T modifiers. Each one applies AFTER the one before it has been checked and applied: First, what the card says it is ("characteristic-defining abilities") -> things that set power and toughness ("creatures are 1/1") -> things that modify power and toughness ("creatures get +1/+1") -> counters -> effects that switch power and toughness.
- If there's two effects that modify the same sublayer - as March of the Machines and Humility do, since they both set P/T - they do so in timestamp order. So the first spell to be cast affects what it applies to, then the second spell affects what it can, and overwrites the second. So let's say you have a Celestial Colonnade out on the field. A spell turns it into a 3/3 land creature. Then you activate its ability, which turns it into a 4/4 land creature. When you activated the ability, it overwrites the earlier spell - they both set, not modify, P/T so only the most recent one applies. (Of note - if there was a "target creature gets +1/+1 ability thrown on it after it first turned into a 3/3, then it would turn into a 4/4; when you activate its ability, it'll then be an 5/5, since the creature buff only modifies P/T and thus isn't sloughed off.)
November 12, 2010 4:32 a.m.
I'm pretty sure MagnorCriol has the rules in the last post correct (it can quickly get very complicated when you get into the interaction of continuous effects).
With that said, in the second example discussed where the play order of the spells is:
The following sequence occurs:
============================
[State-based Actions are Checked Here]
1) The March of the Machines doesn't do much when cast since this example has no other artifacts being discussed.
[State-based Actions are Checked Here]
2) Again Humility doesn't do much since there are no other creatures being discussed in the example.
[State-based Actions are Checked Here]
3)
- In Layer 4 'Artifact' is added to the types of all permanents that aren't already artifacts.
- In Layer 7b the march changes all artifacts to P/T of CMC followed by the Humility with the later timestamp changing them all to 1/1.
============================
State-based actions are checked when a player would receive priority which is after all the layering effects have been handled. Thus, the lands do not die given this play order.
However, in the first example you guys discussed above where the play order is:
The following sequence:
============================
[State-based Actions are Checked Here]
1) The lattice makes all permanents artifacts.
[State-based Actions are Checked Here]
2) The march causes all lands to die here because they have no CMC.
[State-based Actions are Checked Here]
3) When humility enters play any creatures still alive become 1/1.
[State-based Actions are Checked Here]
============================
So the order they enter play determines if the lands live or die.
November 12, 2010 3:26 p.m.
Watergodlove says... #12
Would lattice and March of machines combined with master of etherium keep the lands alive?
April 7, 2015 6:37 a.m.
Watergodlove says... #13
Or atleast keep your lands alive destroying everyone else's?
Kalani says... #1
Mycosynth Lattice and Humility
November 12, 2010 2:53 a.m.